Process Not Product (#623)

A dip into the ol' mailbag includes some input from women about previous comments on the #metoo movement and how women are treated in our culture. Then Brad and Wayne share a beautiful story about God winning someone out of their destructive, self-righteous arrogance and into the transformative love of the Father. Religion sets our focus on the product, leading us to frustration wherever we fall short, instead of teaching us how to relax in the process of Jesus taking shape in us. When our focus is on progress not perfection, we can much more freely yield to his work in us and we'll be much more gracious to the people still in process around us.

Podcast Notes:
Order Wayne's newest book: Beyond Sundays
Wayne's Travel Schedule in early 2018
The latest news from our project in Kenya
Add your voice to our question/comment line via Skype at "TheGodJourney"


  1. I really like the juxtaposition between Wayne (the elder son, Luke 15) and Brad (the younger son). This is my perception, not what they said about themselves. 🙂
    It would be totally boring if there was two of either one of you.

    Love Brad’s comment, “we have devolved into… religious instruction.” The great falling away began when Constantine co-opted the church to create a harlot religion. We have been involved, to some degree, in this devolved state of religion ever since. Martin Luther nixed the clergy for a time, but then re-instituted the priesthood to stop the cry of the people to fill the pulpits. He took the RCC priest, removed the formal confessional and transubstantiation, and… whalla, we have today’s Pastor (the OFFICE of the Papered, Professional Pastor [PPP], not the Biblical GIFTING of the pastor/shepherd – they are not the same thing!). Still based upon the priest-craft of Rome, not a relational gifting AS A PART OF THE BODY. Over 1800 Pastors quit the “ministry” every month in the USA alone. It is so hard on them! They are isolated and lonely, the odd-man-out, trying to uphold a paradigm that is not even Biblical.
    Religion = creating our own identity based upon our fallen “grid,” doctrines of men and of devils.
    Relationship = accepting God’s given identity of us as He sees us.

    “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”
    I used to read 1 John 2:3 as a legal basis for how I was doing with God. Now I see evidences of my faith by the changes He has made within me – when I no longer struggle with something and KNOW that I did not change me, He did. Praise His Holy NAME!

    Keep up the good work!

  2. Oh Brad. I often I wonder what kind of utopia you were raised in. I’m not trying to criticize. But you often seem so baffled and shocked over the crazy stuff people believe and think. You keep saying, “Why…?…What makes people…” Just FYI…the answer is always ‘the fall.’ We are the man born blind. Maybe I have just become cynical because I was raised in so much religious crap, but your innocent puzzled self cracks me up. I love you man. I’m happy for you…

    • Life is not all rainbows and puppy dogs. Me thinks you presume much in regard to some “utopia” –but if the entry point to my questions cracks you up and brings some levity and laughter, great. I do have a hunger to scratch below the surface, so my “why’s” are an attempt to get there. Blessings on you. B

  3. I have noted the use of the term “the fall” throughout some comments and the entirety of my life. I am not so sure where the term comes from, but do think it’s somewhat hilarious when one sees that we are still in the same place. (Perhaps it’s just my renewed sense of humor reviewing my own inabilities.) God came to walk in the cool of the day with Adam, etc. Rather, even the act of falling from grace seems totally lame now, but not back in my day of performance and preference. A past full of critical religious zeal that alienated people by my actions and exclusive language. The talk of the testaments speaks of a veil, once in Christ it is removed. The veil was rent but does exist because of the law, which Christ fulfilled; even the gentiles , who had a law written upon their own hearts, which was not the commandments, are separated by a veil. And if God’s spirit walks, and Jesus walked, among us it is in the same place merely divided by a veil. Maybe the term “the fall’ is a religious leftover which we need to bury somewhere outside the camp. In so many words, the core is the tree from which we were told to not eat – the tree of the knowledge of good and evil – and we have been behind the veil ever since. That was long before any other person made a poor choice to invent an identity which could only be truly made known through Christ. Another great chat gentlemen, thanks for letting us eavesdrop… Keep those cards and letters coming to Wayne at life stream, lol!

  4. Guys, I’m just catching up on this pod cast and I wish I could call in! I haven’t listened all the way through but I had to stop and write.
    You’re right, Wayne, that my previous comment wasn’t about Pence.
    It was actually a comment about Brad’s statement of in the earlier podcast about how women could be complicit by silence and “let” men harass them for so long.
    My point was that when we are not given a seat at the table, when we have no voice then how can we stop it?
    The Pence example, was just an example but it remains a good one because it shows the history of what has created the imbalance of power in our world.
    That is the underlying issue.
    If women had more authority there would be less of an expectation and acceptance of bad behavior from men.
    Women would have equal respect and consideration.
    Brad, from where I stopped the podcast you were giving the example that a maybe part of Pence desire to not socialize women alone could be because the man would be a target.
    You can say that today, with the recent me too movement- because that is a current fear, but I have my doubts that “being a target” was something that ever crossed his mind, nor the minds of countless of men in the past who disregarded capable women for a man.
    Brad, I just don’t think you have an understanding of what it means to be a woman. (I hope that made you laugh 😉 …but, seriously, I also hope you can stop and maybe start to look at things from a different perspective, and try to understand the experience even if you don’t share it.

  5. And please don’t take this as something about or from someone who needs “power” …I don’t necessarily subscribe to hierarchy models of any kind. I personally don’t always feel like anyone needs to be “in charge”. However that is a model that is everywhere in our society.
    Most organized things have a person or people in authority, and they are often the ones who influence what is acceptable, – if women aren’t a part of that then what’s acceptable is skewed towards one demographic ‘s understanding.
    Does that make any sense?

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