Gracious in Conflict
Our last podcast about Revival Fever brought a firestorm of emails. Some liked it, others hated it. Brad and Wayne read the letters, and launch into a discussion about how to love others who may not see the things the way you do. They also talk about having conversations through those kind of conflicts that help us all grow, rather than cutting off communication as we simply defend our own positions.
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Hi guys. I really love listening to the podcast. I just finished reading The Shack about a month ago, and to say my life has been readically changed would be an understatement. The Love of God has become real to me in ways that I never knew possible. That is why this podcast and the last were so poignant to me. (By the way, would it be wrong to say “I HATE you!!” after seeing those pictures from your awesome alpine adventure? Ok, I’ve gotten it off of my chest now. I’m over it.)
I attended a church for quite some time (before moving out of state) which had guest speakers in about every month and a half, mostly those who were open to the prophetic, and “more” of God. (Sorry to simplify it that way, but it’s alot to describe, and besides, I think you know what I’m talking about. I’m not disparaging it at all, just trying to sum it up.) Cindy Jacobs, Mahesh Chavda, James Goll, John Paul Jackson, Bobby Connor, Randy Jackson, even the Arnotts from Toronto, who are my pastor’s dear friends and mentors. I want you to get an idea of where I’m coming from. I was IN The River, man! My pastors were transformed and healed after visiting Toronto years ago, and were slowly lynched in our denomination as a result of it, but they wouldn’t let go of this new freedom they’d found, and we were all hungry for it. I loved the fact that you could just lay on the floor in this church and it was not big deal. Soak as long as you want. So they brought in speakers to try and teach us more, and keep the flow going. For years. I learned alot from them. and had many tremendous things happen in my life. I experienced alot of inner healing and deliverance. I also began to understand that there was more that God wanted for me, but I just couldn’t figure out what it was. It frustrated me often, because I knew that there was something else to this. I heard them talk about His love, and my pastors really seemed to have gotten a hold of that, but I couldn’t figure out how to “get there”. I experienced interesting manifestations which I was initially skeptical about (like having my hands and arms covered in beautiful gold sheen). I “birthed” alot of things, I’m assuming into my life and others (I still don’t quite understand all of that). But what I found was that it took me reading a little book about a man’s shattered life before I was finally able to “get it”. The Shack followed by The God Journey is a wicked combination!! My divine encounter didn’t come through a revival service, or through the gold dust, or birthing, etc. Actually, perhaps all of that was part of the preparation “stuff”. Who knows? I believe that I had a serious block regarding being able to receive the Love of God. I cried out for it, but I didn’t know what to do to get it. I finally realized that the secret was that I didn’t have to “do” anything. (I had a long talk with Paul after he came to Atlanta, and he helped me figure some things out). I have had to undergo a major paradigm shift.
I wouldn’t mind visiting one of those meetings, but I’m not looking for anything anymore. I don’t see them as somebody peddaling an “anointing”. For some reason, God does seem to really “show up” in power at certain times and in certain places, and I think there’s an invitation for a deeper connection. The problem is the paradigm it’s packaged in. Perhaps if more time was spent talking about how passionately he loves us, people could receive it. I don’t know. These are just my thoughts. I know that I can look back on those times now, and hear God’s heart of love for me through the words I received, and even recall what he did in me during those times.
I really enjoy listening to you two. Thank you for making your walks with the Lord so transparent with the rest of us, even if sometime you do get flack for it. You’re not “the authorities” on God, and you haven’t purported to be, but you are friends who are just talking about what you believe is true, and I appreciate you.
Hey Guys!
Love the show! Read The Shack, and thought it was really good, I’m going to have to read it again to let the theology aspect sink in, I was too enthralled with the story to really ponder the themes and message the first time through. I don’t understand why some people are upset with it, except that maybe they’re closed-minded and worried maybe new Christians could be confused. I usually like most of what Hank Hanegraaff says, but when he said not to read The Shack, it thought that was a bit controlling.
I’m with you and all you had to say about the Revival Fever. I think there’s a lot of sensationalism, hyping up emotions, and elitism, like you said. What about walking in faith and love and not the next “experience” or “sensation”.
I would like to hear about the disciplines in your lives. You talk about what not to do and what not to be like, so I would like to hear how and when you pray, when and what you study, and how you walk in faith.
May God continue to bless and enrich your lives,
Eric
Here is a clip from a well known Christian speaker re. our attitudes toward other Christians:
“Recently, I came across something John Wesley published during his 18th century ministry. Wesley is widely regarded as one of the most noble and anointed men since the Great Reformation. He and others were experiencing measures of revival which generated notable criticism and persecution. The circumstances sounded a lot like what we see taking place today.
As a result Wesley felt inspired to formulate a covenant that he and other ministers that were joined in heart and vision entered into. Its intent was to fortify a hedge of protection around this company who formed a divine alliance so that division and separation could be alleviated. I felt it significant for our day as well.
The Wesley Covenant: It is agreed by us whose names are underwritten to:
First, that we will not listen or willingly inquire after any ill concerning each other;
Secondly, that if we do hear any ill of each other, we will not be forward to believe it;
Thirdly, that as soon as possible we will communicate what we hear by speaking or writing to the person concerned;
Fourthly, that until we have done this, we will not write or speak a syllable of it to any person whatsoever;
Fifthly, that neither will we mention it, after we have done this, to any other person;
Sixly, that we will not make any exception to any of these rules, unless we think ourselves absolutely obliged to do so.
I believe God is looking for character and people who will join their hearts together in a bond of fraternal affection that will be both fruitful and protective. As we enter what will perhaps be the most strategic era since the resurrection of Jesus, let us purpose in our hearts to walk in a Christ-like manner and fulfill the prophetic prediction of Jesus when He said: By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. — John 13:35”
What a Godly attitude!! What can I say re. all the vicious, negative stuff coming from the “body of Christ” against THE Body of Christ??????
Hi guys,
I’ve just gone through and listened to both podcasts on the revival stuff and wanted to take a minute to respond.
I live in Albany, Oregon and helped plant, and attended for many years (until recently), a ‘revival’ church. Through that experience I became very close to many of the current prophetic ministers in the land. I count Bob Jones, Bobby Conner, Larry Randolph, Paul Keith Davis and others as friends. I’ve also gotten to know Todd Bentley quite well. I’ve spent a lot of time with Bill Johnson, Kris Vallotton and others in Redding (having been there more than 20 times) and I’ve been to Toronto several times during the heyday of the Renewal. Steve Shultz of the Elijah List is a friend of mine, along with his whole family. I’ve had family members and many friends who have worked there.
(I’m not giving you my “resume” or bona fides, I’m just trying to lay out how familiar I am with this whole revival mentality.)
I love and respect all of these people. I really do. However, I am no longer content to participate in this circle. My focus as a Christian has always been to establish and maintain love relationships. This approach has caused me a lot of trouble over the years. It’s created a lot of misunderstanding and conflict, probably more due to my inability to actually try to articulate what I was feeling than anything else.
For nearly 14 years I was a part of this circle, involved in countless conferences, trips, shows, etc. While this was going on, many good spiritual things happened along the way but my family grew increasingly disenchanted, and not happily. Because I’m not a family leader who insists on family participation in ‘church’, one by one my family began rejecting this whole deal and dropped away, until only I was left. To be sure, I was dealing with this along the way but my personal loyalties to all of the people I had grown to deeply love kept me engaged in a system of church that I knew wasn’t particularly life-giving.
As I continued to process through all of this, I kept trying to hear the Father’s voice for myself. He told me some surprising things. (By the way, I do still believe in hearing the voice of God, in spite of the excesses and immaturieies of the “prophetic movement.”) While in a deep quandary one season I asked the Lord, “What about Brownsville, Toronto, Redding, Todd Bentley?” I was feeling very unhappy over the increased dissonance in my heart about a movement that seeks the power of God but doesn’t mind a little “human sacrifice” along the way. (By human sacrifice, I mean a willingness of people to run over other people in order to get an experience with God or to see a deeper, more evident manifestation of the “presence” of God.”
God’s answer to my question about these movements was:
“They are the best… of the old order.”
That really settled it in my own heart. His love for them is just as extreme as his love for me but the time of these things is passing, and the time for true love relationships between Christians is becoming foremost in his emphases for us in this season. Clearly, it has always been so but for some reason, God is absolutely intent on having a people, now, who are really, truly willing to love each other AHEAD OF EVERYTHING ELSE.
Leaving my fellowship continues to be excruciatingly difficult. I miss so many of the people my heart cracks a little more every day. There, of course, has been a lot of accusation thrown my way and I’ve said a sharp thing or two myself but I long to walk with my friends again but know that sometimes pioneers have to go break some trail so others will have an easier path. Besides, maybe I’m not very fit to be around the campfire every night anyway. 🙂
We are truly in the midst of another Great Awakening. I think about the movie “The Matrix” often. It’s such a clear simile for true life in the Kingdom rather than life in the construct we call the church. But, I’d rather eat real slop than fake steak any more.
God bless you both.
Bill Lancaster