An Infinite God in Finite Minds (#637)
Did Wayne throw Brad under the bus in a previous podcast about Breaking Up With God? Brad thinks he did as they revisit their discussion of Sarah Sentilles book. Is it arrogant to make final conclusions about God from our limited knowledge of him? And is that just as true for the brash theologian as it is the atheist? Joining them today is occasional guest, Dr. Bob Stamps, a long-time friend of Wayne's, a retired Methodist pastor, and a theologian. Though they've walked very different roads, they have come to very similar conclusions about God and his work int he world as they talk about theological study and experience in sorting out our views of God.
Podcast Notes:
Wayne's Travel Schedule
Our Previous Podcast about Breaking Up With God
Look up previous podcasts with Bob Stamps in our Guest Archive
The latest news from our project in Kenya
Add your voice to our question/comment line via Skype at "TheGodJourney"
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These broadcasts are just simply GREAT!! Thank you so much for being SOOOO faithful in DOING them.
Great themes and all the honesty and truthfulness in the world posited toward parsing out the beef – the real beef that is- so that spiritual edification can be a true “experience”. Thank you again for your regularity and coming to grips with Chrisitan issues that are the real issues and timely at that. Wow!
Later guys and “Gruezi from Liechtenstein.
Talk about a cliff hanger… right when it was getting good!
Yeah, we knew it was kinda cruel, but it led to a GREAT discussion we couldn’t fit on this one. Sorry! But then again anticipation is a great thing.
One of my favorites so far.
Is it not presumptuous and potentially arrogant to insist there IS a God?!
Of course I share Brad’s conviction and love his heart and the content of this conversation was rich…
Question stands:
If we are trying to remain open minded, are we not doing the exact same thing if we insist we know?
(in the broader world)
Thanks guys!
I thought the same thing, Fred. For 20 years I would have thought it arrogant or naive or foolish to surmise there is no God. Now, I live in a space of “I don’t know,” but sadly, leaning towards there is no god. Furthermore, I do not think anyone can ever fully say with 100% certainty that they know one way or another. Seems to me that one’s faith in a “personal” god comes down to a matter of interpretation or impression or choice. It can “look” rather arrogant and opinionated to make claims either way – god is or is not.
If we believe the bible at all, King David said “The fool has said in his heart, there is no God”. Is that arrogant and preumptious? . Next question: can there be any evidence that is substantive and not subjective toward the existence of God? Yes if you want to be open minded there is plenty of evidence, in fact years ago there was a book written “Evidence that demands a verdict”. Maybe the case for God’s existence has been dismissed by you for a lack of evidence. Maybe you should consider re-opening the case and letting new evidence be introduced. I’m sure Wayne and Brad could help you with that, Jim.
Arrogance to me is not WHAT people are saying but HOW. You can be a humble atheist or an arrogant one. A humble God-follower or an arrogant one that talks down to other people. Truth alone doesn’t make one humble. I guess we can ask whether our “statements” of truth invite people in or alienate them with our sense of superiority. Why do people who believe what you believe, often state it in a way that puts people off? There’s a gracious way to say exactly the same thing, but instead they say it in a way that elevates them above others. I just find it sad.
Scott, I’m not sure if you meant this or not, but your response to me comes across presumptuous, judgmental and condescending. Was that your intent?
I love Bob Stamps when he appears with you guys. Its just such a cool thing to witness the array of hearts for the Living Word. I look forward to the next installment.
As someone who for many years made a similar declaration as Sarah Sentiles, looking back through a love lens, I would say of myself I sounded very arrogant because I was quite sure I was correct. Now when I look at her, the woman I was, I look with compassion and say I just didn’t know. So I would describe myself as having unawareness and short on wisdom. That is not to say I have all wisdom and awareness today. Here is an analogy that works for me. When I said I did not believe in God’s existence, it was like saying I don’t believe in Oxygen but I continue to breathe air. So it was sort of moot. And when I expressed my belief (non-existence of God) to a co-worker who is a believing Hindu, he said to me ” I wish it mattered”. I was so insulted (which is why I know arrogance was one of the issues) so stunned to think that my opinion did not have direct bearing on reality was just absurd to me. But this very moment was also an opening of a door to a deeper conversation with God (of my understanding in this moment). And now what I like is to notice my defensiveness and stay curious with myself and ask God to help me understand me. What’s underneath it that has me so revved up. Its almost always my firm grip on certitude. God keeps blowing it up. Keeps busting the box I keep building to contain my ideas about Him. The beauty is we all have our very own curriculums and hats off to Sarah for sharing hers with all of us. Hats off to the courage of the three of you for putting yourselves out here for the Body. Its just a conversation. (someone said that once). Grateful for these podcasts.