The Sins Against Me, Too? (#646)
"Jesus' death didn't just absorb my sin on the cross, but also all the sins others have committed against me." Wayne was startled to hear that thought from Thom while they had lunch in Raleigh last June. Of course, Wayne knew that Jesus died for all our sins, but he never stopped to consider how the work of Jesus also took the sting out of the sins he has suffered from others. Wow! That gave him a new place to explore life in the kingdom, so he invited Brad into that same consideration. How does that fact change and shape our relationships with others, especially when are victims of their sin.
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Jesus bore the pain of all sins throughout all time from the beginning until the end. We can all suffer physical pain, bleed and die but only Christ could bear all that heart ache in one moment of time thus the reason for …’ My God why have you forsaken me”, as God the father could not look at Christ the son in that moment. All this so that no matter our sins, God will never turn from us.
I think I’d take a different view on why Jesus said he felt forsaken on the cross. I don’t believe for a moment that God wasn’t there with him through the entire ordeal. How could the Trinity every forsake itself? Remember, Jesus quotes the words of Psalm 22, the theme of which is that though the Psalmist felt forsaken by God, he knew it couldn’t be true. God is always faithful. Thus, Jesus did feel fully forsaken when our sin and shame consumed him, but that doesn’t mean he was. “God was IN Christ reconciling the world to himself.” (II Corinthians 5)
To absorb them, He had to feel them. That pain was more than any human is capable of understanding. The physical pain was the part of what Christ did on the cross.
Those of us with empathy can feel our brothers pain at a moment in time when we look into their suffering eyes. At times we weep when we feel the suffering of several of our fellow sinners at some moment. I cannot even imagine what Christ had to feel as he “absorbed” all of our pain for all time past,present and future all at that one moment when the sky went dark just before it was finished.
I believe it because that’s what the Lord has done for me. When I want to strike back He tells me “no”… then like a miracle I find myself comforting the offender!! I told Him… “not fair!”… then eventually I soften and realized I have no bitterness. I stand amazed and in awe of our Father. I truly am His Beloved. I do belong… It’s been a life time to get to this vantage point. Praise God.
What you gentlemen said here reminded me of something. Malcolm Smith was speaking one time on forgiving others and said, “justice has been served for that.” Good chat fellas.
Hi Wayne
I have listened a couple of times to this as well as read the replies and would add just one thought from my perspective.
I lost my profession and my family in one awful month when I entered treatment. I never went back into clergification and my marriage ended in divorce. At one point, all my resources were gone. Jesus had to do a miracle so I could forgive as well as survive, and to my great surprise I got one.
Don’t wrestle, just nestle. Corrie Ten Boom. I love that poem.
Love wins.
Mark
hey guys, can’t tell you how i look forward to the podcast. appreciate the time, effort, and money you have invested in these conversations. what exactly are we talking about when those of us who view sin as a disease to be healed (as opposed to a crime to be punished) use the word “deserve”?
From Wayne: I’m not sure I ever use the word “deserve” in my relationship to God. Everything I have from him is grace and grace alone, so I’m not sure in what context you’re asking your question. Can you clarify? Are you talking in terms of punishment or blessing, or something else?
I was made familiar with this truth a number of year ago in a program dealing with abuse.
For victims of abuse, the sin done against them can be a powerful weight – a millstone. We would often do an exercise where the abuse and the the abuser were named by writing it down on a slip of paper and then tacking it to a physical cross as a way of transference onto and into the body of Christ. Whether or not there was a literal or actual transference at this particular moment was not important, but rather the understanding that came to the person doing it about the truth CHRIST and of the cross.
It is similar to a practice in the Old Testament of the people placing their hand on the sacrifice as a means of transferring their sin before the animal was lead into the desert to die.
My understanding of the sin, is that it needs a place to come to death which is why the Father provided the body of His Son as the perfect sinless vessel for sin to fully come to death. Sin will either come to death in us or in Christ. I look at the body of Christ as a GIFT to me – a place provided for my sin, and the sin of others against me, to come to death.
While doctrinally we could say all of this happened once and for all at the time of the actual death of Christ, the reality of that truth sometimes needs to be visualized as a way for us to remember it. At times I will visualize (and sometime literally with hand actions) the removal of the sin off of me and pressing it into the body of Christ. At other times, I visualize the cross set between me and another person, so that the offence does not come into me, but into Him. This visualizing reminds me of an important truth that Christ bears the sin, and not me.
I wrote a song a number of years ago, when the truth of His body as a gift was made alive to me. Hopefully I am not being to presumptuous in sharing the words.
Press into My wounds all of your pain,
All of your fear, come and find healing.
Press into these wounds, all of your shame,
All of of your sin, come and be forgiven.
This is My body, that was broken for you.
Receive My body, I give now to you.
Behold the Lamb,
A man of sorrows, aquainted with grief.
I am the Lamb,
Who takes away the sin of the world.
Let Me carry the weight.
Let Me wear the stain.
As far as east is from the west,
So far I’ll take it away.
John L, thank you. Your words and your song were helpful and healing.
This is one of the most powerful talks I have ever heard … the truth that Jesus forgave / forgives my sin, and forgave / forgives the sin others do against me, is deep.
Thank you for sharing this Wayne and Brad.
P.S. I’ve already passed this truth on to a friend, who also appreciates knowing this.
P.P.S. Please share if you have more of this … I’m hungry.