The God Journey - 2025 (Season 21)

One Day at a Time (#969)

Fri, 03 Jan 2025 11:39:35 -0700

2025 has arrived! Wayne and Sara take this opportunity to reflect on the last year and what needed to change in their hearts to absorb the surprises that last year heaped upon them. They talk about the nitty-gritty of taking one day at a time and how that sometimes coincides with our need to plan for future events. Since grace is apportioned one day at a time, whenever we allow ourselves to live in our imagined future we are usually alone because we just can't imagine how God will be with us when the future unfolds. Here are some practical ideas about sitting with God in our pain and letting him turn our challenges into new opportunities.

Podcast Notes:

There is no video recording of this podcast
Read Wayne's newest book, It's Time

The Conversation of Community (#970)

Fri, 10 Jan 2025 09:54:55 -0700

From listener emails, a one-thousand-year-old quote, and their own life experience, Kyle and Wayne celebrate the wonder and beauty of God showing up in conversations that inspire us to follow him and give us a better grasp on who God is. That's the power of community, where God makes himself known in us through the conversations we are having with others. They discuss how to let God lead you to such conversations, recognize them when he does, and help open the door for others to join you in conversations that matter. Then, they talk briefly about the sentence Wayne has been working on to unpack a justice view of the Gospel.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast
The Sentence: "God desires to win you into his love so that he can breathe his Life into you, setting you increasingly free from the tyranny of your selfish desires, so, you’ll be free to love others, treating them justly, the way you’d want them to treat you, and thus, reveal his glory in the world around you."
Read Wayne's newest book, It's Time

How to Know You’re Born of God (#971)

Fri, 17 Jan 2025 12:31:45 -0700

How do you know if you've been born of God? For John, it was very clear: "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." That would have been a scary checklist in my younger days, but what if this is the only measure? How would it change the way we introduced people to salvation? As Kyle and Wayne revisit the justice conversation, they also talk about their Yuck Meters and how love sets them in a place where it is difficult to be unfair to others because you care about them so much.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast
Read Wayne's newest book, It's Time

Navigating Cancer (#972)

Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:45:44 -0700

Embarrassed to have cancer? That's one of the emotions Wayne felt in his last three-month journey dealing with a fractured back and chemotherapy. Kyle probes a bit into this stretch of Wayne's journey and what he has learned through it. Throughout their conversation, they discuss the value of silence, the power of not resisting difficult circumstances, the joy of completing some task God has given you, and the value of being able to receive help from others in our most vulnerable places. A couple of weeks ago, they talked about the conversations of community, and this is an example of it.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast
Read Wayne's newest book, It's Time

Boasting in Our Weakness (#973)

Fri, 31 Jan 2025 13:48:33 -0700

What did Paul know about life in Jesus that made him boast gladly about his weaknesses? Wayne and Kyle landed on this verse toward the end of the previous podcast, and Kyle wanted to circle back to it again. Paul not only tolerated difficulties in his life, he actually came to a place where he could delight in weakness, insults, hardships, persecution, and difficulties. Somehow, he knew that at his weakest was when God was at his most powerful, and that became a source of great joy for him. What did he know that we have yet to learn?

Podcast Notes:

The Seduction of Gossip (#974)

Fri, 07 Feb 2025 12:48:15 -0700

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast
Read Wayne's newest book, It's Time

Finding Real Connection (#975)

Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:32:17 -0700

Kyle is back from a community symposium regarding the mental health of youth and invites Wayne into a conversation about where community happens for people, especially those who have not experienced it in more natural ways. Real connection and community flow best out of the adventure of a journey as Jesus guides us through life and is often expressed through intergenerational relationships. It's why so many of our attempts to fabricate community through programs or conformity-based cultures often fall flat. Reaching out to others through friendship is a critical resource for those struggling around us.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast
Read Wayne's newest book, It's Time

It’s Time for God’s Revealing (#976)

Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:38:11 -0700

"The Creation waits in anxious expectation for the children of God to be revealed," wrote Paul in Romans 8. That is the heart of Wayne's newest book, It's Time: Letters to the Bride of Christ at the End of the Age. Together, Kyle and Wayne drill down into the themes and motivations behind writing this book. Why does Wayne think the end of the age is near? What does he hope this book puts in the world? The themes of this podcast include the importance of a resilient trust, an others-focused way of living, and how God develops those in us as we traverse adversity with him.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time

The Anxious Generation (#977)

Fri, 28 Feb 2025 12:55:19 -0700

Kyle and Wayne start with a brief conversation about the movie "A Hidden Life" and its themes of resistance, conscience, and the consequences of standing up against injustice. They touch on the intimidation and discouragement of following one's conscience when friends and family disapprove. Then they discuss Jonathan Haight's book, "The Anxious Generation," about the impact of the digital age on the mental health of the younger generation. Having a phone-based childhood instead of a play-based one has rewired their brains, making interpersonal relationships incredibly difficult. This leads to significant increases in depression, social anxiety, and even suicides. On the positive side, this rewiring can be reversed by limiting access to technology and re-engaging interpersonal relationships.

Podcast Notes:

The Unfolding Redemption Story (#978)

Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:12:08 -0700

So, how are Kyle and Wayne weathering the early days of the new presidential administration and the underlying polarization? After a brief conversation about the value of ritual in grounding our hearts, they turn to the day's political climate. Neither one finds themselves too wound up in the political angst of the day but focused on a deeper story of how God's love and redemption are being revealed beyond the eccentricities of the human contest for power. There's another story being written beneath the political bluster that we need to keep our eyes on.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast. (New FB policy only preserves this link for the first 30 days after the recording date.)
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

Prayers of Surrender (#979)

Fri, 14 Mar 2025 10:30:52 -0600

In his struggle in Gethsemane, Jesus gives us an example of how to come to rest in God's desires rather than fight him for our own. Kyle and Wayne share how surrendering to God is the path to life, yet it contradicts most of our inclinations. Offering God a willing heart and growing awareness of how he works will allow us to flow with his purpose as it unfolds around us. The book of Acts shows us a people ready to act when God moves rather than people strategizing how best to accomplish his work. They reflect on the kinds of prayers and conversations with God that will best help us follow him.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast. (New FB policy only preserves this link for the first 30 days after the recording date.)
How the Elite Rigged Society by David Brooks
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

Made Just by Love (#980)

Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:50:23 -0600

What would the church look like today if it had been less preoccupied with getting its theology right and more in touch with what it meant to be loved by God and live out of that love in the world? When we put the life of Jesus into institutional systems, we gravitated toward conformity of thought and practice instead of helping people discover the reality of love and its transforming nature. Kyle and Wayne explore the idea that justification is not a declaration by Jesus of our righteousness but the process by which love changes us internally so we live as just people. Is that how we were meant to participate in his kingdom.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast. (New FB policy only preserves this link for the first 30 days after the recording date.)
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

What Power Will Do To You (#981)

Fri, 28 Mar 2025 18:15:16 -0600

"Power does strange things to people," say recent studies. "Like alcohol, (it) has a tangible effect on the brain." Holding power over others actually rewires the brain to give them less empathy and respect for others. Is that why Jesus told his followers that while the world assumes authority over others, it isn't so in his kingdom? Kyle and Wayne discuss power distribution in hierarchical systems and why it almost always leads to abuse, indulgence, and corruption.

Podcast Notes:

- The video recording of this podcast. (New FB policy only preserves this link for the first 30 days after the recording date.)
- Sorry, but the Science BBC Report on Drunk with Power is not currently available on the web
- The Roys Report: Honor Culture and How to Control the Masses
- Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

Listening to Your Body (#982)

Fri, 04 Apr 2025 14:24:09 -0600

When pushed to the extreme, how do you know when to listen to your body warning you to stop, and when do you persevere through it? Sara Jacobsen joins Kyle and Wayne for a conversation about recovery from trauma and how to honor the healing process. Sara and Kyle were taught not to listen to subconscious warnings and to continue to please the demands of others to their own detriment. They are learning to recognize stress signals and the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding their response to difficult situations. Developing self-awareness and the ability to respond appropriately to emotional cues is an ongoing process that requires self-compassion and patience. At the end of this podcast, Sara shares what she has learned from the past three years dealing with her childhood trauma and the freedom God's Spirit is sowing into her life.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast. (New FB policy only preserves this link for the first 30 days after the recording date.)
Sara's statement of growing freedom:
"Understanding why and how my belief system was formed helps me feel compassion for myself. It gives me the capacity to have patience when I struggle to create new neural pathways. It gives me the strength once again to endure and face deep emotional feelings from abusers. It gives me courage to stand up against the evil done towards me. It awakens me to see what was stolen from me in my formative years. It gives me a glimpse of hope during my internal fight. It opens my eyes a little more to the wrong I endured. It releases me from condemnation heaped upon me. It allows me to speak up and say it wasn’t my fault; I’m not the bad person here. They are. It frees me a to realize I was victimized and not responsible for any of it. It shows me how strong I am to endure so much and survive. It acknowledges my goodness as a human being. It helps to discount the abusers’ words about me. I’m not who they say I was."

Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

The Satanic Panic (#983)

Fri, 11 Apr 2025 08:59:01 -0600

Kyle and Wayne have been listening to The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, a podcast by Christianity Today about the Satanic Panic of the 1980s and 1990s. This spawns a conversation about spiritual warfare and how easily our fears can be manipulated to compromise truth. Our preoccupation with the forces of evil, especially in a fearful state, will do more harm than good. They both share their experiences, questioning what was real and effective and what now seems like a waste of time and spiritual passion. Evil seeks to delight us with something so engaging that we can't see where it will lead us until we're caught in its trap. That's why God invites us to engage him out of trust where we can see more clearly.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast. (New FB policy only preserves this link for the first 30 days after the recording date.)
The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea podcast
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

You Cannot Force Love (#984)

Fri, 18 Apr 2025 08:57:02 -0600

"Redemption has always cost someone something." That text from a friend sent Wayne on a journey of discovery of the difference between the nature of love and the nature of darkness and he invites Kyle to share it with him. Evil always takes something it doesn't deserve to cause pain for someone else. Love gives something another does not deserve, even at significant personal cost, and bears the pain that others are experiencing. Love and Life can only be offered; they can never be forced, neither in giving love nor receiving it. They also talk about making room for growth in others when the status quo is based on their bondage, not freedom.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast. (New FB policy only preserves this link for the first 30 days after the recording date.)
Living Beyond Our Transformation podcast that Wayne referred to in this one.
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

Abusive People, Identity, and God’s Pain (#985)

Fri, 25 Apr 2025 08:28:49 -0600

Since Kyle was unavailable this week due to sickness, Wayne dives solo into the mailbag to share observations and questions from listeners that have built over the months. Thus, it is impossible to put a theme on this podcast since we get to cover a wide range of topics from our listeners, including dealing with abusive people, finding our true identity apart from sin and law, how God experiences our pain, whether God is vengeful, and praying for our country in these turbulent times.

Podcast Notes:

Sorry, there was no video for this podcast.
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

The Funeral of a Pope (#986)

Fri, 02 May 2025 00:00:00 -0600

The eyes of the world were on Rome last week as presidents, kings, and prime ministers gathered in St. Peter's Square for Pope Francis's funeral. While seemingly a man touched by Jesus, he presided over a religious system that bears little resemblance to Jesus' ministry or priorities. Kyle and Wayne ruminate on how the life of Jesus morphed into these kinds of institutions with leadership hierarchies, ornate costumes, opulent buildings, and programs that seem to do little to connect people with the living Christ. What does it mean for sincere hearts who participate in them, and what does it take to think outside the box of institutional religion when so much of Christianity has invested itself there?

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast.
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

When Friendships End (#987)

Fri, 09 May 2025 12:30:09 -0600

"You know that feeling when something's changed in a friendship, but you can't quite put your finger on it. You used to feel close. Seen. Safe. But lately, something feels off." Those are the opening words of an article written by Therese Mascardo, a friend of Wayne and Kyle's. She offers seven signs that can help you know when to end a friendship, and in this episode, they discuss the article and its implications on relationships with people and religious institutions that can help you find freedom to treat relationships with authenticity instead of pretense.

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast.
How Do You Know When It’s Time to End a Friendship? by Therese Mascardo
Authentic Relationships by Wayne and Clay Jacobsen
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

Finding Our Way to Us (#988)

Fri, 16 May 2025 14:59:49 -0600

As Wayne and Sara go off to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary, Kyle has a lot of questions to ask about their journey in marriage when he is 13 years into his. In this two-part conversation, they discuss how marriage evolves over the course of decades, either moving toward greater frustration or to mutual fulfillment. They cover a broad swath of marital issues, including commitment, faithfulness, sexual play, control, finances, getting help from a third party, and making room for the other to change in ways that might be challenging. Learning to love someone over a lifetime in a relationship of mutual love and self-sacrifice is one of the greatest gifts God makes available to our human experience.

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast.
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

Finding Our Way to Us, Part 2 (#989)

Fri, 23 May 2025 00:00:00 -0600

As Wayne and Sara celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary, Kyle has a lot of questions to ask about their journey in marriage when he is 13 years into his. In this two-part conversation, they discuss how marriage evolves over the course of decades, either moving toward greater frustration or to mutual fulfillment. They cover a broad swath of marital issues, including commitment, faithfulness, sexual play, control, finances, getting help from a third party, and making room for the other to change in ways that might be challenging. Learning to love someone over a lifetime in a relationship of mutual love and self-sacrifice is one of the greatest gifts God makes available to our human experience.

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast.
Get Wayne's newest book, It's Time!

Masculinity Without Domination (#990)

Fri, 30 May 2025 08:40:49 -0600

"To turn boys into men, we teach them to disconnect from vulnerability, from their feelings, from others. The consequence of a disconnected boy is a disconnected man." So says Terry Real, therapist and author who specializes in helping boys and men who struggle to find connection in a world where few men model healthy relationships. He was interviewed on a podcast that Kyle and Wayne both listened to and wanted to share the nuggets they gleaned from it. Intimacy comes from vulnerability, and when men only learn how to act out of anger and aggression, they do tremendous damage to themselves and others. They miss out on the gift of life, which is relational joy with their spouse and others.

Podcast Notes:

A Passion for Spiritual Maturity (#991)

Fri, 06 Jun 2025 11:44:48 -0600

In their younger days, Kyle and Wayne felt a powerful drive for spiritual maturity, albeit in a mostly performance-based, competitive environment. How has that changed as they've learned to rest in the confidence of Father's love? This leads to a raw conversation about God's passion for our maturity and how we embrace it. It also leads to a discussion about how we view salvation. If it is amnesty for our failures in this age, and then we're instantly transformed to purity in the coming one, what does that mean for being made complete here or there? If it's a process God loves, wouldn't our love for him make it something we desire as well?

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast

Growing from Contentment (#992)

Fri, 13 Jun 2025 09:41:17 -0600

How many believers would answer yes to, "Are you everything God wants you to be at this moment?" Wayne invites Kyle into a conversation he is having with Tobie van der Westhuizen regarding whether spiritual growth best comes from the frustration of falling short or from contentment with what God is already accomplishing in one's life. Much of Christendom foments frustration as a way to motivate people to growth. What if it had taught contentment instead inside of God's love? As Tobie says, "The best way to grow in whatever God has for you is to be content with where you are today."

Podcast Notes:

Where to Find Relational Community (#993)

Fri, 20 Jun 2025 08:34:47 -0600

The desire for deep and authentic relationships with other believers lies at the heart of our spiritual passion. And yet, that isn't always easy to find, especially if we've moved away from religious institutions. How can we establish a more organic sense of relational community with others? Kyle and Wayne discuss how genuine community is a gift God gives, not something we can organize on our own. What we can do is foster friendships with people in our lives, as the environment in which community takes hold. To do that best, we learn to recognize the pace of others around us instead of imposing our agenda on a growing friendship.

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast
Email your observations about the God Journey to Wayne or Kyle
Wayne's blog on a new crisis in Kenya
Full Review of It's Time

Loving Our Way Through the Culture (#994)

Fri, 27 Jun 2025 17:10:32 -0600

As Kyle and Wayne dive into the mailbag, they find themselves discussing current "revival" tactics that trespass on unsuspecting people, navigating relationships in a polarized culture, and whether Jesus is waiting for an invitation from those close to him to come again and rescue the planet. There isn't so much an overarching theme here, but a lot of thoughts about how we best impact the culture in these perilous times.

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast, which is only available for 30 days after recording
Email your observations about the God Journey, or your thoughts on finding romantic love, to Wayne or Kyle
Wayne's blog on a new crisis in Kenya
The last chapter of It's Time

Finding Romance on The God Journey (#995)

Fri, 04 Jul 2025 12:34:55 -0600

How does one find romantic love today, whether you are 19 or 68, and how does God fit into that part of your journey? Kyle has been speaking with many people who are struggling to find a connection in the current culture. Tracy Levinson and Wayne join him for a candid conversation about the desire for a mate and trusting God to provide one as you make yourself available to the kind of friendships that may reveal a lifelong love. They talk in candid terms about guarding your heart, finding contentment in God, so you're not so desperate to fill a hole in your life, expectations that can get in the way, dealing with the temptation toward casual sex, and the pain that pornography can do to a relationship. At 69 minutes, this one went into overtime.

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast, which only caught the first 38 minutes, will be available for only 30 days after recording.
Past podcasts with Tracy
Tracey's website
Tracey's book unashamed: candid conversations about dating, love, nakedness, and faith

From Friendship to Community (#997)

Fri, 11 Jul 2025 09:58:25 -0600

We are so accustomed to the fellowship that human effort can engender that many have lost sight of the path to relational community that comes from building friendships. After discussing testing boundaries and how the enemy twists our spiritual hungers into unattainable ideals, Kyle and Wayne explore a pathway to organic community. Beginning with our growing friendship with Father, Son, and Spirit, we are in a better place to take an interest in others and see where friendships develop and who is ready to share their Jesus journeys together. When friendship is the building block of community, people can share an environment where it is safe to be vulnerable and authentic.

Podcast Notes:

The video of this podcast

When God Blows Up Our Box (#997)

Fri, 18 Jul 2025 13:33:26 -0600

What do you do when God doesn't do what your religion taught you he would do? Do you conclude that he must not be real, or do you throw out some of what you were taught to discover God as he really is? After a conversation about certainty being the opposite of faith, Wayne and Kyle process Wayne's recent trip to Boise. You can tell if someone is truly a leader in the body of Christ by whether they are an example of his love or if they consider themselves an exception to it. They also talk about how Jesus reveals his way to us as we learn to rely on his presence, not follow the rules or expectations of others.

Podcast Notes:

We're sorry, but due to a technical error, the video of this podcast is not available.

Human, Messy, Sacred (#998)

Fri, 25 Jul 2025 12:06:02 -0600

A couple of weeks ago, Kyle asked Wayne about his trip to Boise. This week, we have the opportunity to hear from someone who was present at that gathering and how it affected her. In her post, she described true fellowship as human, messy, and sacred. That depiction resonated with Wayne, causing him to wonder if our attempts to organize the messy out of human engagement also lose the sacred? Kyle and Wayne explore that question and her other comments. They also talk about finding joy every day, especially through challenging stretches of thealing or struggle. They begin by talking about moments where it seems the enemy is trying to steal their joy or creativity.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast

Finding Harmony Again (#999)

Fri, 01 Aug 2025 15:02:20 -0600

We live in a day when relationships are easily discarded whenever they reach a bump in the road. Yet, it is normal for even good relationships to go through difficult stretches, due to discovering things you didn't know before, simple human mistakes, or insensitivities. The relationships that grow large over time learn to recover from periods of disharmony. Kyle and Wayne discuss relational repair and the relational capital required to facilitate those repairs more easily. You can bring healing to relationships without sacrificing authenticity or affection.

Podcast Notes:

We apologize, but there is no video recording of this podcast available.

Episode 1000 (#1000)

Fri, 08 Aug 2025 11:06:20 -0600

Brad is in the house as he joins Wayne and Kyle to celebrate the unique legacy of The God Journey for our 1,000th episode. For twenty-one years, this podcast has helped people explore their own journey with Jesus and how to connect with him and others outside the box of religious obligation. They discuss their friendship, a new possibility for The Shack, and how their friendships have grown as they have explored their own God journeys in this format. They also read emails from our listeners, describing what The God Journey has meant to them over the years.

Podcast Notes:

We apologize, but there is no video recording of this podcast available.
Read all the emails we received to celebrate The God Journey.

Finding Your Footing Again (#1001)

Fri, 15 Aug 2025 00:00:00 -0600

Many have said that when God closes a door, he always opens a new one. To which someone added, "But it's hell in the hallway." What do you do when your weekend meeting is no longer a place you can go? Having been alongside numerous people over the years, Kyle wants to know how Wayne helps others find their footing in Christ. They discuss not seeking the same kind of meeting again, but instead using some time to explore how deeply loved they are by God. Most legalistic groups prey on fear and guilt to try to keep people on the straight and narrow, and many lose sight of his love. The journey begins as we become settled in his love, and then watch the relationships he will add to our lives, and connections that are far richer than we may have known before.

Podcast Notes:

Video recording of this podcast
Read all the emails we received to celebrate The God Journey.
Hell in the Hallway - podcast from 2006
Wayne and Sara's upcoming trip through Colorado, South Dakota, Montana, and maybe Alberta before heading back for a lap around the Pacific Northwest.

Loving Through Chronic Pain (#1002)

Fri, 22 Aug 2025 15:45:26 -0600

It is easy to respond to someone's pain with love and prayers for healing, but what do you do when healing doesn't come? Many feel awkward, unintentionally withdrawing from the relationship because they don't know how to support someone negotiating chronic pain. Kyle and Wayne explore what it means to care about someone with a long term condition, whether it be emotional or physical. Can we sit with someone in pain and know that the power of our presence to hold it with them is as powerful as trying to get God to fix it? The best way to learn that is by discovering how God is present with us when we are in pain. Presence is everything!

Podcast Notes:

Video recording of this podcast
Wayne and Sara's trip through Colorado, South Dakota, Montana, and maybe Alberta before heading back for a lap around the Pacific Northwest.

Authentic Relationship in an AI World? (#1002)

Fri, 29 Aug 2025 15:37:22 -0600

Many people are substituting AI for their interactions with other human beings. From romantic relationships to therapy, even spiritual direction. Which brings up the question: Is it healthy to try to have heart-to-heart conversations with an algorithm, even one designed to mimic human responses? Humanity has always adapted to technological changes, but does it make us even more relationally challenged than religion did? AI unleashes some powerful tools that can be used for good, and at the same time, open doors for tremendous evil. As a mental health professional, Kyle is particularly concerned that this trend will do irreparable harm to human engagement in the process.

Podcast Notes:

Video recording of this podcast
Wayne and Sara's trip through Colorado, South Dakota, Montana, and maybe Alberta before heading back for a lap around the Pacific Northwest.

Finding Calm Amid Chaos (#1003)

Fri, 12 Sep 2025 13:28:27 -0600

Wayne and Kyle were together in Sheridan, Wyoming, this week and had the rare chance to sit down face-to-face after Wayne had shared the Language of Healing with Kyle's sociology class. They talk about Wayne and Sara's trip so far, and that leads them to a conversation about finding calmness in the midst of chaos. Peace doesn't come from our circumstances, but from Presence. His peace can actually guide us through any difficulty and allow us to see what opportunities he has for us.

Podcast Notes:

Sorry, there is no video of this podcast.
Wayne and Sara's trip through Wyoming, Montana, southern Alberta, and back through Idaho, Washington, and Oregon

The Fruit of Forgiveness (#1004)

Fri, 19 Sep 2025 11:34:15 -0600

After Wayne and Sara shared their trauma story with Kyle's Advanced Counseling course, Kyle wanted to talk more about forgiveness as the fruit of God's healing, not the way we earn it. So many see forgiveness as an obligation God requires of us, even if we only pretend on the outside, instead of a process that flows out of his healing inside our hearts. They also talk about how easily bullies can misinterpret Scripture to great discussion, and what it means to take God's name in vain.

Podcast Notes:

Sorry, there is no video of this podcast.
Wayne and Sara's trip to Calgary and back through Idaho, Washington, and Oregon

The Traditional Congregation (#1005)

Fri, 26 Sep 2025 00:00:00 -0600

Wayne and Kyle received a letter from a pastor concerned that this podcast, which he loves, gives little credence to the value of more traditional congregations. So, they process his letter, responding to his concerns and discussing where traditional congregations can be healthy and encouraging to someone's spiritual journey, and how they can, often unwittingly, begin to trespass on that journey and become more of a barrier than a bridge.

Podcast Notes:

Sorry, there is no video of this podcast.
The audio release of It's Time
Wayne and Sara's trip to Calgary and back through Idaho, Washington, and Oregon

What it Means to Abide (#1006)

Fri, 03 Oct 2025 09:30:06 -0600

What would change if you trusted God's presence abiding in you instead of seeking to feel his love? Wayne and Kyle read through a recent Facebook post by Graham Cook that talks about the difference between resting in his habitation instead of seeking encounters with him. When you realize that you can stop chasing what you already have, rest in relationship instead of working for relationship, practice awareness of existing presence instead of creating encounters, live from His promise, not your feelings, and make his presence your dwelling place, not your occasional destination.

Podcast Notes:

Sorry, there is no video of this podcast.
The audio release of It's Time

A Path out of Legalism (#1007)

Fri, 17 Oct 2025 11:17:15 -0600

During Wayne and Sara's recent trip around the Rocky Mountains, they met many people in the cities they traveled through who have left or are considering leaving a worldwide, legalistic Christian sect. Recent revelations of child sexual abuse on the part of leadership caused many to reconsider the teachings and practices of the group. Now, many are seeking to move out of religious performance, motivated by fear and pursued by self-effort, to an affection-based relationship with God, where love provides the impetus for rest and transformation. Kyle wants to know what Wayne learned in these conversations and how he helps people process this stage of their journey.

Podcast Notes:

We're sorry, but we were not able to make a video of this podcast.
The audio release of It's Time

How We View Morality (#1008)

Fri, 24 Oct 2025 12:22:25 -0600

Why are some followers of Jesus deeply concerned over the tactics and demeanor of the Trump Administration, while others wholeheartedly endorse it? A recent article suggests it may have to do with how we view God's morality. Is it keeping to a moral code by a vengeful deity, or is it the fruit of God's love, teaching us how to treat others? Kyle and Wayne explore this article and whether or not vengeance, intimidation, and arrogance are helpful to advance Jesus's kingdom in the world. Wasn't the Incarnation God's desire to win by love what fear could never accomplish? They also discuss the complexities of U.S. immigration policies and their desire to make them more humane.

Podcast Notes:

We're sorry, but we are still having technical difficulties and were not able to make a video of this podcast.
Article on Vertical and Horizontal Morality
Walter Brugermann's talk on Justice from above, versus justice from below
The audio release of It's Time

Living from Fullness (#1009)

Fri, 31 Oct 2025 08:39:54 -0600

Kyle asks AI to define the message of The God Journey, leading to a brief discussion about AI and the soothing properties of the ancient cathedrals. Then he and Wayne get into the conversation about finding our fullness in his Presence, rather than seeking it in the temporal amusements of the world. Presence is about focus and simplicity, not elaborate rituals or time-consuming practices or having to “fill up” at weekend services. Religious institutions can unintentionally create a cycle of spiritual emptiness and dependency, rather than fostering a continual engagement with presence and joy.

Podcast Notes:

We're sorry, but we are still having technical difficulties and were not able to make a video of this podcast.
The audio release of It's Time

When Fear Trumps Endearment (#1009)

Fri, 07 Nov 2025 11:14:12 -0700

Following up on last week's podcast, Kyle and Wayne begin by discussing the power of presence to shape our lives in love. They agreed that religion often removes the focus on presence, offering instead a system of rules and certainty that doesn't lead to an authentic connection with God. By motivating people's fear, Christianity has often prioritized fear and control over genuine spiritual transformation. How different would our influence be in the world if love were our foundation? They conclude with a conversation about a false application of Ordo Amoris, which falsely allows us to be selective in those we love, allowing us to treat others with contempt.

Podcast Notes:

We're sorry, but we are still having technical difficulties and were not able to make a video of this podcast.
It's Not Chocolate - an earlier podcast

The Pain of Moral Injury (#1010)

Fri, 14 Nov 2025 12:11:12 -0700

Kyle surprises Wayne with a new term that is being utilized in trauma work—moral injury. This happens when someone, either by choice or coercion, acts in opposition to their deep moral framework. It causes significant damage not only to the one who does it, but to the people impacted by his actions. It is especially troublesome in religious contexts where such betrayal can even destroy our ability to believe in God. They highlight the challenges of healing from such injuries, noting that they often affect a person's identity, worldview, and ability to trust others. They talk about betrayal and how to move beyond it to healing, highlighting the transformative power of God's love and the ability to find purpose in suffering. They end with the idea that the painful groanings of that injury may, in part, be the prayers that are too deep for words.

Podcast Notes:

Performative or Transformational? (#1011)

Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:12:30 -0700

It was a tale of two cities over consecutive weekends that got this conversation going. Wayne shares about his experience with former 2x2 members in the South, and then he went with Sara to their 50th college reunion at Oral Roberts University. As Wayne processes those experiences with Kyle, they find themselves contrasting performative Christianity to a doctrine or program and a transformational journey that comes from an ever-deepening engagement with God's love. As part of that conversation, they read through Psalm 15 as it describes the company of the just, where God wants to make his presence known.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast

Communing with God (#1012)

Fri, 28 Nov 2025 16:29:51 -0700

Kyle's away this week, so an old friend joins in. Brad Cummings was co-host of The God Journey for 700+ episodes, and joined us most recently on #1000. Many of you asked to have him back again, so he joins Wayne for a conversation about equipping people to engage a real presence when they give their hearts to Jesus. Instead of training them to be good Christians, might it be more valuable to help them learn to live from their hearts in growing communion with God? This is the essence of the New Covenant, not to be led by programs and rituals, but to connect to God's presence in them so that they can be drawn into the adventure of following him and find increasing freedom in his transformation.

Podcast Notes:

Sorry, we did not make a video of this podcast
A Man Like No Other, which Brad talks about on the podcast

Finding the Space to Explore (#1013)

Fri, 05 Dec 2025 11:26:13 -0700

In a world that seeks to crush us into its mold, having the space to contemplate, explore, question, and grow is a rare and delicious treat. That's where Wayne and Kyle landed today after reading an email from a listener. That thread ran through their other conversation about seeing beyond the home team/away team binary that religion throws at us and how listening to God has changed over the course of their lives. They also discuss how we can better facilitate that space for others instead of trying to cram the breath of the Spirit into a curriculum, presentation, or system.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast.
When the Maps Run Out - the podcast Wayne referred to in this podcast.
Lifestream Store with 25% discount through Christmas with the promo code: Christmas 25

The Murmuration of the Bride (#1014)

Fri, 12 Dec 2025 10:45:51 -0700

How will the bride of Christ be revealed in the world, especially since she is so fractured into thousands of denominations? Perhaps there is already a parable of that in the Creation, in the murmuration of starlings and the schools of fish. Scientists call it behavioral synchronization, but maybe it is something more. It now seems that for a brief time, starlings and fish become part of an interconnected organism. Kyle and Wayne discuss the idea of "unmanaged community" and how it reflects the organic, spiritual connections among believers. These connections, often spontaneous and unstructured, can be more authentic than human-managed communities. While we get glimpses of it now and then, perhaps the time is coming for a global "murmuration" of believers that comprise the Bride of Christ. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast.
Murmuration Video - not quite the one Wayne referred to. And here's another one with music.
The Secret of Secrets
Finding Church by Wayne Jacobsen
Lifestream Store with 25% discount through Christmas with the promo code: Christmas 25

The Root of Desire (#1015)

Fri, 19 Dec 2025 09:28:06 -0700

"Love fulfills the law because it fills us." After a brief conversation about a perspective shift in challenging times and sharing inexhaustible love, Kyle and Wayne discuss finding our fullness in him. They plough through an article about desire. It turns out humans enjoy getting the thing they desire than having it. The dopamine hit that comes from procuring what's desired doesn't last long, which is why so many are almost immediately out seeking the next new thing. What if the root of our desires is for God himself? Trying to fill that desire with anything else would always fail. Finding our fullness it him would let us live with gratitude and appreciation, no matter what we possess, rather than the constant yearning and dissatisfaction.

Podcast Notes:

The video recording of this podcast.
A $100,000 New Car Won't Make You Happy - Article Wayne read from
Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.
Lifestream Store with 25% discount through Christmas with the promo code: Christmas 25