Knowing Him is What Matters (#501)

BandWBrad stays over from last week's podcast as they continue to celebrate their relationship and hear from others about how this podcast has encouraged their journey. They also talk about the latest research from Group and Josh Packard (Church Refugees) that 65 million Americans are former "church" goers who have opted out and only about half of those still identify as Christians. What happened to the rest? Did they not ever meet a God more real than the frailties of their institution? That invites them to a further discussion as to how we grow to know God over time even through the struggles of resistance from the world we live in and from our own flesh. They also talk about The Shack movie and more on what Brad is up to these days.

Podcast Links:
The Exodus of the Religious Dones by Josh Packard and Group Publishing
The Butterfly Circus
The Butterfly Circus Book
Wayne's Upcoming Travel to New England and Colorado
Our latest update from Kenya
Add your voice to our question/comment line: (805) 539-6980 or Skype us at "TheGodJourney"


  1. Great podcast fellows…at times you were speaking about things I was going through as well.

    I’m not on Facebook, so this is the first opportunity I’ve had to express what the God Journey has meant to me. I have been listening for about three years, so I missed the glory days of the birthing of The Shack and So You Don’t Want to Go To Church Anymore. I am one of the ones that have gone back and listened to every podcast. A couple that I go back to again and again are ‘The History of The God Journey’ with the gentleman from Alabama who compiled the episodes into various categories, and a Labor Day podcast where Brad trips Wayne up in the intro and gets him to say ‘And I’m Brad Cummings’, and it devolves into a laughfest from there.

    What I’ve learned from listening to the God Journey… I don’t have to be the center of attention to be in the center of God’s affection, things will happen in God’s time and way, not mine, only God can change me, and he has, and will continue to through eternity.

    Thanks guys!!!

  2. Ron,

    I love this!

    “What I’ve learned from listening to the God Journey… I don’t have to be the center of attention to be in the center of God’s affection, things will happen in God’s time and way, not mine, only God can change me, and he has, and will continue to through eternity.”

  3. Thanks, Ron! Love what you shared and blessed to know that our journey has encouraged God’s work in yours! Blessings!

  4. It’s taught in the institution that if you don’t go to church you’re ‘backslid’and away from God.
    When ever someone stopped going to church I always assumed that they had forsaken God and were out of fellowship with Him.
    Along with that thinking, I assumed that should I ever stop going I would be out of favor with God and that He wouldn’t be able to bless me.

    The tragedy of this is that many who leave the institution because they perceive some kind of falsehood that doesn’t line up with the God they’ve met, also end up leaving God, because they’ve accepted the lie that if you turn your back on the institution, God will turn his back on you.
    So they reckon, if God can love me one minute and turn His back on me so easily, I’m gonna give myself fully to chasing all the fleshy sins I fought so hard against.

    These days, when I encounter such believers I assure them that God has never left them. And that in their heart of hearts they probably never left him.
    They almost always agree.
    The lie that if you leave the institution your somehow lost is something I hate and oppose whenever I can.

    Was moved by your story as it’s similar to mine.
    I came to China expecting to be a great missionary.
    Then I encountered ‘missionaries’ who didn’t know one Chinese person outside of the institution. They had the title, the praise, the position, and the pulpit that I coveted. But actually they weren’t touching the lives that I was by simply befriending people and letting Jesus rub off on them.

    What I do, cannot be measured. I cannot report how many I led to Christ or how many attended meetings. I’m done with all that.

    I trust when I get to heaven some might say ‘I was down and a genuine believer listened to me’ or ‘somehow a fat Englishman made me feel loved and I knew it was God’.

    Your gifts are still active, Gregory. You’re probably doing a lot more than you realize.

    • Hi Robin — just found out that this site exists, as I have been listening to The God Journey via iTunes. Thank you so much for your encouraging note. Yes, it sounds like you and I have had some similar experiences. I’d enjoy continuing this conversation. Let me know and I’ll send you an email or Skype ID. Again, really, thanks Robin!

  5. Just listened to both 500 &501 back to back and WOW!! I marvel at the way you both have of putting my daily life into fun language. I was getting goose bumps listening to the way God makes Himself real to me and here is you two chatting joyfully with tons of laughter explaining the very the very process of how he is changing me. I’m probably in the stage where the caterpillar is getting sick and getting ready to hang himself, hehehe, but listening to the podcast has made me get on the end of my rope with rippling belly laughs. There is renewed confidence is just welling up on the inside like a warm bubbling brook and it’s spreading through my body, if it carries on much more I think I might fly of this perch.
    Thank you so much for the last two podcasts they are so real and I love listening to the genuineness mingled in them. Wayne I have emailed you before regards meeting people near me (the near Heathrow England dweller), your reply was spot on that God knows what and who I need in my life. Although that hasn’t moved on much since that email I can see God making changes in me and most importantly how my relationship with Papa has become so much more personal than I have ever thought possible.
    I do often listen to the past podcasts as I feel they help me to get something Father is trying to get into my journey. They have even helped me to not let go and keep going in the past.
    Take care both of you and love you both!!

  6. On this podcast where you guys talk about leaving the “institution” of church. I thought, man, that is my testimony. I grew up in the Catholic church. My whole family is Catholic. When I met the woman that would be my future wife, and her mom, they started something that changed me forever. When I was Catholic, I was just religious. I was spiritually dead and living in the dark. I knew of God, but I didn’t know Him. He was some distant entity that lived on His throne watching things react to His command. My wife and her mom asked me so many questions about Catholicism. I could not answer their questions. My only response was, “That’s just how we do it. That’s just what everyone in church does.” I got a summer internship away from home one year, and one of the things I decided to bring with me was my Bible. A miraculous thing happened to me. I actually read my bible for the first time ever. In it I found none of the religious man made traditions and ceremonies that I had been practicing. I did find the most beautiful love story ever written. Since then I have left the “institution” behind in pursuit of God, and I have become part of the “true” church, the body of Christ. I am a born again Spirit filled believer. I am beloved.

    I started going to a new church. It is officially a Church of God denom., but I remain non-denom. I think it best to stay away from religion. I have gotten connected. I volunteer on the media team, running the camera when needed. Just recently my pastor has asked me and 3 other guys to form a small group with him to have discussions and pray together. I am very excited about this group and what God has planned for us. Amazing things have happened in my walk with God as of late, and it will only get better from here.

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