Meet the Wives, Again!

We got them started, and now we're not sure we can get them to stop! After our last podcast, Sara and Kelly were still talking about some of their issues in living outside the system. We turned the microphones back on and thought you'd appreciate the issues they're facing today as they talk about their feelings regarding corporate worship, their children, and finding fellowship with other people, especially other women, as their journey's continue. So those of you who asked for more Sara and Kelly, your prayers were answered before you even asked them!


  1. I’ve been following your podcasts since the beginning, and have sent the occasional e-mail. I am particularly waiting for Jake Colsen to be completed. Wayne, Thank you for the recent new chapter.

    This podcast particularly hit home with me. The coporate worship used to be something that I really enjoyed when going to a “Club”. I still do sometimes. We have not been regular club attendees for over 2 years now. But we are not really anti-club either. Your perspectives on the “system” are very perceptive. I have found it quite reassuring that there were others thinking like what God has shared with me… That I am not even close to the only one with these thoughts and conclusions.

    One gotcha at “corporate worship” is that I like to think about the Words / Lyrics as I sing along, dance or whatever. So often I find myself substituting or adding words, or using tongues when I cannot fix the song on the fly. Why? because I honestly cannot say to God what is being said in the song. “I’m desperate for you”…. no, rather “I’d be desperate without you” far too many examples abound. I’m never without him, he never leaves me. If I don’t perceive his presence it’s me, not him.

    The process this established in me of monitoring the lyrics, or HAVING to use tounges automatically removed much of my earlier enjoyment. even many very biblical (direct scripture quotes) old psalms based songs are denying of the relationship that Jesus and the Holy Spirit gives us now.

    The “perfectionism” among the worship team kills much if not all of the possible spontineity. On a few occasions where I have happened to be among an inspired jam session where it’s ok to actually think about, discuss and perhaps even change the lyrics, and to just love each other and God… now that is great.

    Virginia and I have been “Out of Church Christians” since we got kicked out of a nearly lifetime “church” association due to things we learned that improved our receptiveness to the things of God. This resulted in Virginia’s healing from MCS/EI (a serious illness). They cheered answered prayer until we started to share. Then it was ok to come to worship but not authorized to teach.

    Then God moved us on to a bible college (not seminary), where insights were encouraged and then slapped if they didn’t agree with what they thought. In doing so God moved us out of our house and into a bus. Since then we have been on the road, meeting and encouraging people wherever God makes connections. We then stay in touch via email and our website. We are NOT preaching, or a seminar circuit asn the tendency would be to think.

    We drop in on various “clubs” at times. Without sharing our background unless asked, we find ways to encourage people there in their personal relationships with Jeshua… In our daily lives we also cross paths with an amazing number of “Church Burned” who are questioning God….. what a pleasure to be able to serve tham as John served Jake…. Even some who never had the “church experience” whom we can introduce to the Jesus we have come to know. The every day, every minute intimate Jesus.

    My current struggles involve how much work (tentmaking?) to do versus other ways to spend my time. Often I meet people that I can encourage via work… but it also takes a lot out of me, and I often let it cut into time that I could be using other ways. Along side that is an onslaught of insights that are difficult to find people to share and discuss them with due to fundamental programming of people by the system in ways they don’t even realize.

  2. I think it’s only fair, Wayne, that we get some photos on the website of your dogs :O)

  3. Kelly,
    Thank you so much for your openness and transparency concerning the music issue. I’ve been outside the system for five years and as a pastor and the “worship” team leader I have also had no desire for any of it and wondered why. In my “former life” I was a music teacher so this makes it more wierd not to have any desire right now for music. I was involved in the “contempory music” battles everywhere I pastored and pushed it as the way to go. I’ve had to do alot of repenting the past five years. Although I don’t miss any of it I do wonder what to do with the internal passion for music that I once had. I have the same paralysis when it comes to teaching. So for now I continue to wait and enjoy the new work that Jesus is doing in me and others.

  4. Can relate to so much of this. Miss the “worship experience” but tired of the performance issues. After a disheartening experience at church (well the service I go to) yesterday morning, I ended up writing a song whilst cycling home. Called Reality. Might record it one day. Kelly and Sarah – thanks for the honest sharing.

  5. Have you ever thought about interviewing single people who are living outside the box? It would be exciting to hear from middle aged singles as well as college & career types. How do they find quality fellowship outside of the dating game and Singles Ministries down at the Club? How do they deal with empty-nesting or sudden singleness (divorce & death of spouse)? What fulfills them as they try to do the God Journey apart from organized religion? Are they searching for mates or not? How do they keep others from assuming they have all the free time in the world to serve on more committees, work late, etc. just because they are single?

    Just some ideas. Thanks for the show, as always!

  6. Suzanne,

    We would love to talk to out-of-the-box singles about this. Any takers? Start by calling our comment line (805) 626-4212 and leaving some of your thoughts about single life in this God Journey. And if any of you want to do a phone interview let us know and we can call you for that…

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