God and Mammon

This might be the podcast you want to skip. It is not for the squeamish. Wayne and Brad pick their way through the minefield of how our preoccupation with money and possessions can blind us to God's reality in our lives. Jesus warned us that trying to follow him and pursuing our own economic self-interest were mutually exclusive decision-making priorities, and said we can only end up loving one of them. Good stewardship can become an excuse to seek our own financial security instead of finding it, and all our other security, in him alone. This is sure to become a recurring theme since income and spending permeate almost everything we do in this world.


  1. I have enjoyed listening to various episodes over the last few months. It is wonderful to listen to opinions and thoughts from two people who were “movers and shakers” in the system. I am also happy to hear the various guests you have had on the show and the emails and blog comments you have shared. Sadly, I think it has been a bit too static in viewpoint and expression. This new year I hope many of us who are listening join in on the conversation on a more frequent basis. I will try to do so myself and I would especially like to encourage others to do so.

    There is an elegant beauty to this life in God that we live. Each individual’s relationship with God is unique just as each individual is. That uniqueness expresses itself in each direction: how we relate to God, and how he relates to us. Along with this, God relates to us in community or communities as the case may be. We live dependent on God and in interdependence on each other. With all of that going on, how anyone can figure it all out and have the answers for every situation is beyond me. I am grateful that Wayne and Brad do not pretend to have it figured out or have all the answers.

    I have agreed with most things that have been shared on the broadcast. I have a differing perspective on other things. In having some “God Journey” like conversations with friends, I have found that so much of what we hear or how we interpret what someone else says really depends on who we are (our unique personhood). For instance, there have been situations where I thought “Joe” was being manipulative and someone else who was party to the same situation did not think “Joe” was at all. Only God knows the true intent of “Joe’s” heart. “Joe” might not even know himself.

    Bringing those thoughts into this situation, we find that Wayne and Brad represent the views of two people who were “deep” into the system. Given the conversation, I would guess that they are similar personality wise too. Considering the various types of personalities and what experts in the field tell us, my guess is only 15% of the population have styles similar to Wayne and Brad. I am one of them. I believe there are many brothers and sisters out in cyber land who have differing personalities, who come from a different background and who would express some of the same realities shared on the show in a different way. Please do so for the benefit of all. It will make the conversation that much more enjoyable.

  2. Great show guys! Thank you for sharing your own personal experiences, as we learn to release all things to He who knows what is best for us. I noted a refernces to Watchman Nee and this I thought interesting as I recently revisited his book – “Love Not the World” where he so vividly conveys the nature of the world and the Chrsitians relationship. In the last chapter entitled “Robbing the Usurper” (http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/lovenottheworld/chapter%2011.htm) he covers the topic of money, with a central premise tha “money and all that it represents is in opposition to God” and “whenever you touch money you touch the world”.

    Now this may go futher that where you guys went in your discussion, but I think his idea (and I encourage all to read this book) that it possible to “transfer money from the realm of Satan to the realm of God” is an interesting one. I am not entirely sure I hold to this or even fully comporehend it, but it may be worth further discussion and seeking. Consider this excerpt –

    “Here, then, is a vital question for each one of us to answer: Does the money I am touching today represent shekels of the sanctuary or the mammon of unrighteousness? Whenever I receive a dollar, or whenever I earn a dollar, let me make sure that that dollar is instantly converted from world currency into the currency of the sanctuary. Money can be our destruction, but money can also be our protection. Do not despise money; its value is too real for that. It can be of great account to the Lord. If you yourself come heart and soul out of the world, then you can, if God so wills it, bring many precious things out of the world with you. When the Israelites came out of Egypt they brought away much treasure with them. They spoiled the Egyptians, and the spoil they carried away with them went to construct the Tabernacle. Some too, we recall, went to construct a golden calf and was lost to God. But when God’s people left Egypt the Tabernacle, at least in its materials, left Egypt with them. Egyptian gold, silver, copper, linen-all was converted and contributed to the sanctuary of God.”

    Let us dear saints hold all things, including the world’s money, loosely, such that our Lord can have us wholly to Himself, and that His blessings can flow through our lives to one another. Let us ask Him alone to meet our corporal needs and never the world. For we seek only from whom we trust, adn He must be the all in our lives. Let us allow even the world’s filthy lucre to be cleansed as it flows through our hands to fulflill His Kingdom purposes. Let us be content with spiritual blessings, and food and clothing, for everything else is mist and vapor.

    Thanks again guys, for this and other discussions that edify the saints, and foster community along this blessed journey towards the heart of our Heavenly Father.

    Love and Blessings,


  3. Great topic, guys. You know, I have been asking these questions about money for so long now that it is like a continual consciousness I have with me – why do we have so much and the rest of the world so little? Is it really a useless, foregone conclusion that “the poor you will have always” – and therefore we just get used to the fact that an entire continent has millions of people starving to death in it? I would love to hear you guys talk about this stuff more in the future, especially because we – as you said, the 1% of the people in the world who own the computer – are at a time and with technology that makes it so easy for us to give some of our money away to people who need it (and riskier, too, because we’re giving money to people we don’t know. But where God leads, right?)

    I’d also like to hear you talk about the generosity of God because this is the flipside. We are planning on buying a house in the next few months, thanks, mainly, to my grandmother leaving me an inheritance with translates to a house deposit. I just feel so blessed … but I also feel so guilty. Trying to place myself in that context that we have this bid wad of money we are going to spend on a roof over our head whilst so many in the world have nothing – I’d love to hear what you guys have discovered God saying to you about this kind of stuff.

    Thanks, again, for the podcast. Honestly, it is the best online fellowship I have ever had!

  4. Thanks for the podcast on God and mammon – well, thanks for all of them, really!

    I appreciate so much the fact that you both emphasize that what you are sharing is how God is asking you to walk, not a law for everyone else to follow.

    I can really relate to the things you both went through losing your regular paycheck. I’m naturally somewhat of a security freak – I like to have things nailed down and know what’s coming. God has been drawing me away from that my whole adult life. Instead of providing me & my husband with a nice stable, steady income, we have both been self employed our entire marriage. There have certainly been times when my tendency was to panic and stress about financial things, and there have been times of great economic hardship (at least by American standards!), but we have learned more and more to trust our Father’s provision through all of that.

    I’d love to hear a podcast on hearing God in our individual lives. I know that’s an area of great confusion and insecurity for many, and something we can all grow in.

    Keep ’em coming!

  5. Hi Brad & Wayne. This is my first post here, so I just want to say how much my family and I have been enjoying all your podcasts. Seems like God’s season for us right now is get a good deal of our input from these podcasts. This one on God & Mammon was extremely helpful to my wife and me. She said after we listened, “This is a new concept for me.” Actually, I don’t think it is all that new, but what she meant was that the Father is teaching us to more radically follow his voice in this area of our lives (as well as many others!). Thanks for tackling this subject. I haven’t listened yet to the next one on listening to God, but that is certainly another area in which he is doing his work in us. I’m excited to hear it.

    May I suggest another topic? Spiritual warfare. I’ve read some things lately that emphasize how we must fight the enemy. I’ve always believed that, sort of. But, what we have been learning about living in Father’s affection and love and trust and freedom, etc., seems to be in conflict with the notion of fighting ANYTHING, pretty much. Does that make sense? Could you consider doing a podcast on that subject? Thanks! and thanks much for ALL you are doing. You two are such a blessing to us!

  6. Hello Wayne Brad and all,
    I actually have always had a problem with teachers teaching that money has to be in “Gods will”..and you have to have it “submitted to Him”.I personally believe we have a responsibilty not to speak to hastilly about that subject,it creates too much bondage way too easily for us.It condemns us at every turn when we are so worried about having money[as in we are doing somethng wrong by seeeking to work for it] or any other need in this life.Let’s face it its a very natural normal part of life and living here in this world.Lets not over spiritualize it or under spiritualize it for that matter.We need money guys and gals,and i would venture to guess its very helpful to have more of it at times too.No it doesnt bring ultimate security,no it doesnt cause us everlasting inner peace or anything,but it does have its advantages and comforts.To me its better to just focus my eyes on enjoying Him and not worring about how much money i make or not…if we needed to “invite Him” into everythning all the time we’d end up very condemned feeling becuase just the fact that theres something “wrong” will make us stare at our toes all day.No i do not beleive that going into ministry one should expect to make a kazillion dollars,but quite frankly i beleive a doctor would make alot.Let God love through you with that money in your life to bless others and YOU for that matter .I am not sure its ever that wise to compare those in full time ministry with christians serving in the secular realm/jobs/careers.Quite frankly im sure they both have there great rewards.No boss breathing down your neck,sense of adventure and focus totally on God…would be nice…in exchange for having a threatening boss meanwhile making lots of money..i know this because im the latter!Anyway its a great subject to tackle and wuold love to hear more thoughts…take care and thanks for stickin your neck out there Wayne and Brad!

  7. Kevin,
    I enjoyed your post.I think when we hear podcasts,books,tapes..we always have a tendency to personalize it as if it were meant for us specifiaclly in real time.We all have uniques circumstances and learn at different times in different ways.I had a great deal of financial hardship early on in my life and would never even consider anything less than trusting the Lord for what He provides at a deep level.However when others came in the their own timing and tried to teach me i wasnt trusting the Lord enough..it messed me up and established a law for me that i simply struggle with.In fact i think it makes you actuallly more worried about money when you simply cant just go out and earn without thinking God is against you all the time.We have enough worries than to worry about that.

  8. I enjoyed this podcast so much and I felt finally that I was not alone. In a world full of 401K’s and retirement and CD’s and all that, the devil finds fodder to torment me with, “what are you doing for your future”, and of course, I know that when I’m resting in the Lord, I don’t have to worry about that…God has it under control. It’s just the darn pull of the world that can really try to get you confused at times. God has my husband and I on a very interested track in life, just trusting Him and doing the jobs He has us doing. My flesh is always screaming, I need a real job……..but yet, He keeps leading us and providing. He is the provider!!! The main theme I get from this podcast is that the Holy Spirit knows all about our needs!! And He does things that surprise us! and we CAN trust Him!!

  9. Hey Guys. I have been downloading the podcasts(no easy task here in Kenya) in order and just listened to this one yesterday. It is amazing you did this podcast last year, but the content goes along perfectly with what is happening in my life right now. I struggle with God’s provision more then anything else in my life. Being a missionary is what God called me to do. One of the first things he told me was you cannot be like other missionaries. I did not realy think much of it since I am not like most people anyway, but little did I know how that was going to impact my life and my families lives.

    We do not raise funds in the traditional way and did not wait till we had our budget raised to start the work God has for us. I did not travel to churches to raise money or pledges, and God has been teaching us (it took me a little while to learn) to not ask people for money. There have been rough times, but when I look back at the past 2 years I cannot see a time when God abandoned us.

    Well anyways thank you again for this timely podcast. I suppose God knew I would have opportunity to hear it almost a year later at a time in my life when I needed to hear it.

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