Following Principles Or A Person
Wayne's participation in a recent Brian McLaren conference starts a discussion with Brad regarding McLaren's teachings, the Emergent conversation in general and a new book on the scene entitled, Chasing Francis. Join them as they contemplate whether or not this life in Christ is about following principles, albeit it very good ones, or following a person—the One who is God's life!
Oh my goodness! You both just make me laugh! It’s so good to be Father’s child …
I have recently just finished reading “The Secret Message of Jesus” and am currently reading “A Generous Orthodoxy” both by McLaren. (As usual for me I read in reverse chronological order). I was introduced to Your (Waynes) teaching by a dear brother in Texas while on vacation. (I tried to leave the CD behind cause “If I gotta hear one more person tell me about a “new and improved way” of getting to God I’m gonna be sick). But he caught me. So my journey began.
After processing for about the past 18 months (and consequently God re-arranging, de-constructing, and otherwise making most of my previous conclusions, ideas, morality, politics, ad infintum) obsolete. I was hesitant about reading yet another “christian” book by a “most influential” evangelical voice. But God’s work and grace enabled that to happen without detriment. I think McLaren has given great thought to the matters of our “religion” and he unashamedly uses that term (I still have trouble with that). Maybe he is a voice who is speaking and asking the questions that need to be asked and considered. And maybe, just maybe, he’ll be heard.
What I still have not decided, in my limited clarity and exposure, is whether or not this will evolve into just another way of doing “church” or will it truly lead to the dynamic and (in my limited experience) unsettling, free, unnerving, peaceful, secure relationship with Jesus.
Clearly he has gained an audience. I pray and trust God will use him to get people asking their own questions; Becoming critical about what they put into their minds and hearts about Jesus, and learning to learn from him. To become revolutionary in relation to the status quo of “church” life.
Mark, I hope you are right. The questions need to be asked and they must lead us all to him and real life in him as the answer. If not, our best intentions will become just another exercise and after awhile we will become disillusioned on one hand or arrogant on the other all over again.
I heard wayne say on one of the podcast that all churches should be disbanded. then i heard him say that ultimately we should abandon our agendas. to go to a pastor’s conference predetermined to talk to someone about the concept of disbanding all churches seems like an agenda and this is what confusing me as i listen to wayne. i believe that it is ok for people to attend house churches instead of a normal church, that is your choice. the problem i have is when those who don’t attend the normal church begin to sow discord against those who choose to go to church. i’m praying that god will teach us how to edify one another in love and be fitly joined together. then i heard wayne discussing the issue of tithes and how the scripture in malichi was pertaining to priest. what about 1 Peter 2:5 (New International Version)
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
and what about when jesus said we should tithe in matthew 23: 23
23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesâ€”mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawâ€”justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. [these are the words of our LORD JESUS CHRIST]
I love you guys but i don’t have peace about what you are doing. if you say we shouldn’t have agendas then why do you have this website and why are you doing podcasts. if what you are doing is true then go all the way with it and just follow christ without the use of technology or any other tools. your doing the same thing as traditional churches just a different way. you ask for donations you just use paypal to get it. what do you all need donations for anyway? i thought you didn’t have an agenda? how much does it cost to run a podcast and website? have you ever thought once that maybe you guys are ex pastors that possibly fainted? be free from controversy and love the brethren. we all have an agenda in christ and it can be found in matthew 28: 19,20. let’s push [promote] christ and make disciples for HIM and not for ourselves. God bless everybody
the truth in love