Our Work or His?

How do we know the difference between God asking us to labor alongside him in some task, and employing the arm of flesh to try to do something for God? Wayne and Brad wade into those waters as they talk about the futility of flesh, but the power of cooperating with God in those things he wants to share with us. The difference is not always easy to tell, but there are some clues that might help. In the end, it's not about manipulating others to the response we want from them, but about living a life so full and free in him that others want to feast from the same plate we are.


  1. okie doke. I AGREE WITH BRAD!!!!!!!! Sometimes you are a jerk Wayne. People were just being nice.
    My suggestion to all of us let’s read more talk less and honestly Wayne, our friends on other continents are blissfully ignorant in their own way. To call names(under the table so to speak) and say that stuff about who is more intelligent(we don’t get it this is what its really about!!!PLEASE) is more revealing than you know. Brad’s restraint is refreshing. Unfortunately change is coming and REFORM is a thousand years away because this is the way we do things and then we complain about the craziness. We put stuff on the train tracks and then blame the train for the wreck.

  2. Your summary paragraph grabbed my attention more than the podcast in some ways. But both keep the same point. Being led by the Spirit is the only thing that bears fruit, whereas the arm of the flesh is exhausting and at worst brings death.

    So many focus on your addressing the love of God, which so many need to hear, but I think they really miss the heart of your ministry which encourages us all to be led by the Spirit. Religion is the work of the flesh. Always has been always will be. Religion began in the garden of Eden when our first parents put on the Fig leaves.

    This guy who wants to create a safe place for people still has a religious mindset. Being a safe person, as you all pointed out, is the fruit of the Spirit which comes by being led by the Spirit. The issue of helping people know the love of God tends to their wounds but is the foundation of our trusting God which is the only way to be led by the Spirit.

    I thoroughly enjoyed the broadcast. Thanks.

  3. “To call names(under the table so to speak) and say that stuff about who is more intelligent(we donÒ€ℒt get it this is what its really about!!!PLEASE) is more revealing than you know.”

    Joni, what do you mean here? I may be missing something of what you are trying to convey.

  4. Just trying to give ol wayne a hard time. The very beginning of the podcast he said something about getting a lot of emails about how Brad didn’t get it and they typed in all caps. You know what Peter it was such a small part of the pod cast and it was really talking about health care issue from the last pod cast it really isn’t probably worth discussing. This is what I’ve noticed about all, any political conversations is that both sides, left or right, will frame the argument with statements that the other side just doesn’t get it and they are so stupid. I am so sick of debates being framed this way with put downs or demonizing the opposing point of view. The put downs are subtle sometimes. I wonder if its because we put such a premium on agreement that our fragile ego’s cannot accept counter point without lashing out. I noticed that they agreed to disagree but I felt like wayne had to put his two cents in about the feedback in the emails. I am not known as a great communicator Peter, sorry. When we say the phrase ” you don’t get it” I hear
    “you are stupid you just don’t get it”. Maybe I do get it and I just disagree with you. I still am probably not making any sense. Thanks for asking.

  5. Thanks for that Joni. I think you are so right about how putting a premium on agreement can be destructive. I think that “unity-through-agreement” model can only churn out more denominations! That is one of the nice things about the podcasts; the boys often demonstrate that faith and friendship can survive differing opinions. If we really are secure in Him, we are bonded by what is in us, rather than what is between us.

  6. Hey fellas. Just felt like making a quick comment on the story about the dad and his daughter. Was actually very cool story, and I think that we are moving into more of that sort of relationship with our oldest, where we allow him even more freedom to mess up and learn from his choices (and the consequences of them) rather than to more proactively make the choices for him. But that’s becaus he’s older.

    Every time y’all talk about parenting I get this twinge in me that you are overreacting to some choices you made in parenting your kids (maybe especially Wayne?) and I where I always resolve that in my head/heart is that it seems like you’re talking about older kids – even teenage kids and older? – where when I think kids, I think of mine that are 10 years old and down πŸ™‚ Our daily issues are much more about “right” and “wrong” and we are VERY hands on at the moment in really “making” choices for our kids, so that they learn what is right and good and best.

    You just mentioned (from the story) that letting the daughter “disrespect” the dad was the best way to handle the situation, and the twinge I got was that when our kids are 3, 5, 7, even our 18 mo old… we want them to learn early on (not with a heavy hand, just with consistency in loving (and even firm) correction and training) that there is life in listening to and following your parents teaching. (We’ve been reading Proverbs together as a family lately and that has been reinforced over and over in the first chapters of that book.)

    Anyhoo… not real sure why I felt I needed to say that, I guess just because I think it every single time you ever mention parenting. So, perhaps I too am “overreacting” in the opposite direction. If so, my apologies. But, just figured I’d throw it out there πŸ™‚ Perhaps there is someone else listening (and reading this blog post?) that feels the same way and might be encouraged to know that there is also a time to train our kids that respecting those who have lived and experienced more – especially their parents – is something God wants for us and says brings long and fruitful life.

    Wow. I said more than I thought I would. πŸ™‚

  7. Okay….I just got done listening and have come away refreshed and with a smile (Buddha’s mom – that was great!)

    I totally hear what you guys are saying when it come to exhaustion. There is a type of exhaustion that comes from working hard to get something done (which usually means I’m functioning out of a place of worry – which leaves me with an ulcer) vs. exhaustion that comes from seeing God at work and being a part of that. I think our religious language does not serve us well in this regard. “Use me God” we say – like God is the divine handyman and we are his back pocket screwdriver. Instead how much more loving and freeing is it to realize that God is already at work. If we realized this we could instead end our days saying, “Wow, Father. Thanks for letting me be a part of what you were doing today!” This is a huge sea-change for me – one I hope to grow in to more and more.

    Great metaphor about the church and vegetables. You’re right. In a lot of circumstances we don’t see people coming into our church buildings and saying, “I want what you’ve got.” It’s often, “I know this doesn’t taste good but it’s good for me” type of experience. Maybe it should be more like the scene in the movie, “When Harry me Sally” when Sally’s “excitement” compels a woman at a nearby table to lean over to the waiter and say, “I’ll have what she’s having.”

    Blessings brothers – keep on keepin’ on.

  8. I had a revelation while listening to this. The reason why my life changed when I started praying for and then having faith that I could have a touchable, tangible relationship with God is because I started depending on God for what I was depending on people for. When I received love, encouragement, wisdom from Him, then I wasn’t so needy. When I wasn’t so needy and therefore sometimes demanding, and more giving of encouragement and love–then people treated me better. Then the relationships started an upward spiral which became self perpetuating.

    I still have times of forgetting that God can fulfill my every need, and try to get that need fulfilled from people–but I quickly return to living in his love…and so my relationships are flourishing. Yes, I do want relationships with real people–but with God feeding me, I can be more authentic, fearless, honest, loving, giving and peaceful.

    I have many clients I help with organizing, cleaning, gardening. consulting, and more–and I am actually getting to be in great demand since I have changed my attitude. Strange turn around–I see the truth in seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you.

    Thanks for all you do–love you guys!

  9. Hi
    Been listening to a few of these older blogs, really liked Greg’s comments above in regards to teaching children respect as a means to life, and was wondering if there was any comments to follow on from this. Appreciate you sending those comments if there are some.

  10. Geoff, all the comments we got are here. Sorry. But I do think Greg misunderstood the lack of respect comment and is extrapolating an incident into a principle. But both of you might enjoy the Loving on Purpose podcasts, under “Family Life” in the topical archives. I think it directly addresses the issues you’ve raised.

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