Painful But Worth It

Back from their end-of-the-year break, Brad and Wayne catch up with each other and some emails from listeners who share their own journey out of religious performance, to living loved. They describe well the process of moving from being painfully disillusioned about God and the church, to becoming gratefully disillusioned in their new-found freedom, joy and relationships. These stories underline the reality that this is a process, it takes some time and though the early days might be painful, the fruit that it yields is far and away worth taking the journey.


  1. Well,
    I have certainly felt like the rat at times. But for me it’s going to be about moving past the cynicism to love again. I feel like God is beginning to show me how to love like that again.

    One of my favorite songs says “Living might mean taking chances, but they’re worth taking, loving might be a mistake, but it’s worth making…Don’t let some hell bent heart leave you bitter, when you come close to selling out, reconsider…give the heavens above more than just a passing glance, and when you get the choice to sit it out or dance….I hope you Dance”
    “I Hope you Dance, by Leann Womack”

    Thank you for discussing the reality of this topic and being a ray of hope from Heaven that there is life beyond the pain.

  2. Hey guys. You are right on. This GOD journey thing can be very painful. The more so if we see it as ” religion ” ( our trying to please and appease GOD and men with our feeble attempts at righteousness,holiness,”good works”, etc). To me, the more I rest in the free and loving relationship that our FATHER has planned for me, the less painful it is. JESUS alone is the author and finisher of our relationship. To HIM we ask, come quickly! GMAN

  3. Thanks guys. I have found myself on the verge of giving up my search for the real God you describe. Forgetting to remember the glimpses and touches of Him in the past, I sometimes feel Im chasing Someone I only wish was there. Wanting to distance myself from my failure, I don’t want to look anymore.

    Listening to the poscast gives me hope to journey on.

  4. I am not sure why but this all reminds me of one of my favorite poems by George MacDonald:

    Lord, I have laid my heart upon thy altar
    But cannot get the wood to burn;
    It hardly flares ere it begins to falter
    And to the dark return.

    Old sap, or night-fallen dew, makes damp the fuel;
    In vain my breath would flame provoke;
    Yet see—at every poor attempt’s renewal
    To thee ascends the smoke!

    ‘Tis all I have—smoke, failure, foiled endeavour,
    Coldness and doubt and palsied lack:
    Such as I have I send thee!—perfect Giver,
    Send thou thy lightning back.

  5. Know some folk who follow Pastors Wayne and Brad…

    See their lives and their kid’s lives…

    This is just another revolt against due order and protocal that God set up for the good of us humans. I say that after reading many of the comments.

    Realtionship is paramount in any orgainization – esp. the Church…and sadly that has been left undone with the emphasis being put on works … but that doesn’t negate the fact that what was started on the Day of Pentecost isn’t still the “litergy” to be followed and the healing comes when we go back to that and work out from that with emphasis on relationship, not works.

    You have started your own “church” here and you are pastoring a lot of hurting people…that is a weighty thing brothers!!! A very weighty thing.

  6. Bev, Respectfully, what litergy are we to follow that started on the Day of Pentecost? When I read Acts 2 I see the apostles speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost and believers from all over hearing it in their own language. Then Peter stands up and gives a message that cuts them to the heart and calls them to repent and be baptized. Then the believers devoted themselves to the apostles teaching (which is God’s word today), fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayer. The believers sold their possessions and gave to anyone in need. Every day they met in temple courts and broke bread in their homes and ate together. In the first century, the primary way they met were in homes. If we follow their pattern we’d meet together every day. We’d break bread in our homes and eat together. We’d sell our possessions and give to anyone in need. Can we only devote ourself to the apostles teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayer inside the walls of an institution?

  7. Nicely put Michele. It sounds as though Bev thinks most sheep need to be kept in the barn instead of following the Shepard’s love in the great wide open. I don’t think for a minute that Wayne or Brad want to be followed but I do believe they enjoy seeing folks walk down the road, independent of institutional directives.

  8. I love the fact that there is a place in the body of Christ for each of us, with all our separate searches for meaning and expression and structure.

    I noticed that when Paul wrote his letters, he always wrote “to the church (or churches) AT ________” Not “to the ________ church”. Kind of liike a letter I might write “to the Asians in Seattle, or the Asians in London” It gives me the idea that he never saw the church as anything more than an “ever expanding” gathering of people who are each unique in their perspectives but also united in their goal of being disciples of Jesus.

    What I appreciate about you Bev is that you were willing to take somewhat of a risk in expressing your particular perspective on this page. It indicates to me that you are thinking and searching like the rest of us. If nothing else, your comment is a good test to see if, in the end, we will truly be know as Jesus’ disciples by the love we have for each other. Heck, even Paul and Peter didn’t always agree with each other.

  9. Bev’, It’s not hard to see where you’re coming from and if you can work it in the system, great. But that doesn’t mean that some of your brothers and sisters can’t hear Father differently for their lives, now I’m one of those.

    My second thought is that Paul never had a computer to connect to brothers everywhere but I bet he would have loved it. he wrote letters and they took awhile to get to their destinations. If he had been blessed enough to have a comp’ Father could have suggested that he do a podcast with one of his brothers and the saints would be blessed.

    I’m pretty sure you’re not suggesting that 3000 converts on the day of penticost started going to “Church” the following Sunday under one or more “pastors”.

    So what we see is the saints getting together in homes close by and sharing meals and Jesus with each other, and breaking bread and meeting each others needs, they also gave into a fund that the Sent ones (Apostles) could use to meet the needs of folk far and wide as they went about being sent.

    I don’t think Wayne and Brad have started a “Church”, Father did that when the Apostles first believed in Jesus and spoke and lived out that belief. I know that you know the Church is universal, so we have the Church in America, England Etc… and the Church in Wisconsin and each city and town, and the same is true for every state and every country, every building and home where believers meet or live.

    Bev’ just live your walk loved by Jesus and let others do the same, it won’t be the same with everyone, we’re all on a journey and are loved and guided differently by Father who dwells within us by thr Holy Spirit, it’s all very personal and shared with one another in different ways.
    I guess Father knows what to do with the members of His body even as you do with yours only more so.

    I love the walk and relationship I have with Father through His son, I loved it whilst I was in the system and I love it now that I’m out, I can now feel I love the WHOLE body of Christ because He loves through me, and that’s true for me of the folk that have not yet had the revelation of Christ.

    I guess there’s an entering into His rest that lets us trust that He knows exactly what He is doing.

    I hope this comes across as an encouragement and not a lecture.

    Others being out of the system is not a comment on your being in it.

  10. Hey I’m late in hearing this podcast. Just sharing what an encouragement it was to me. I’m living in the painful part of the transition right now. More and more of what I held on to before is being removed (slowly I am seeing that this is loving even through the pain). It’s encouraging to hear Brad talk about times when he felt aware of his aloneness..”nobody understood me” and being able to lean into Jesus…knowing that He understood perfectly. There is an inner strenghening that happens as Father’s presence becomes more of a felt reality that transcends our intellect and emotions.

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