Relaxing Into a Life of Grace

Sara joins Wayne and Brad this week to share her experiences in England with Wayne. They share about the marvelous journey various people are on to break free of religious obligation and find the freedom to walk in the life and grace of Jesus' unfolding work in their hearts. Brad and Wayne also read a recent blog posting that is riddled with misunderstandings about what The God Journey is all about, as well as what it means for people to live in the grace of God.


  1. Wayne/Brad/Sara,

    There’s a point you make in this podcast, which one of the most PROFOUND statements of the entire segment. You mention the “eternal ramifications” of sin; yet, once again, like many other podcast in which you use this exact same phrase, you don’t give it any “legs.” The reason why I think this is so important for you to really, thoroughly unpack and explain it is because for those of us still in the process of deprogramming ourselves of religion, it can only be inferred by the listener (ESPECIALLY former Catholics like me) that you’re referring to sin necessarily sending a person to hell.

    Thank you SO much. God bless, my friends. Thank you for having Sara on the show.


  2. Wayne, in regards to the most interesting question you got while in England about the apostle Paul. I don’t find it all that close to heretical at all 🙂 It sent me looking for a comment I made in a conversation earlier this week on someones Fb page and I found it

    The people in the bible are just like us….they get it right sometimes and get it wrong sometimes. Seeing that it is both is beneficial in order to grow.

  3. I wonder if through some time machine Paul could visit us now and he would probably “tear his robes” in disbelief and horror at what has become “the church” and how could he not see his fingerprints all over some of the twisted parts. How his heart would ache, I am sure, as mine does sometimes.

  4. How I’ve processed this question further, isn’t so much what Paul got wrong, but how much of Paul we got wrong. In the end many believers become followers of Paul, instead of followers of Jesus. I think the point of my friend’s “heresy” is that we have to interpret Paul in light of the things Jesus said and did. If not we get Paul wrong…

  5. Regarding what Paul got “wrong”…or didn’t…. I wonder if some of it could be explained by being realistic that perhaps he wrote his opinion more often than the one time he admitted it was only his opinion. Honestly I’m sure I give my opinion a lot more than just the times I preface my statements with “in my opinion”…. I think we are all a mixed bag of revelations from God (absolute truth) and our upbringing, experiences and indoctrination by outside sources. How much of what we all believe is God’s absolute truth and just our “take” on life??? I suppose we’ll all find out one day….

  6. I totally agree with Sarah. I didn’t mean that Paul got anything wrong. I meant how much has changed since Paul was in an earthsuit especially the way the catholic (little c) chruch functions. Is he not attributed with starting the whole “preacher” guru thing. Unintentional consequences of some of the things they initiated. Tearing his robes would be out of the anquish of how we have created another religion not a lot different from his roots and totally lost the freedom. Its almost like I can hear him “you foolish Galatians who has bewitched you” only up a few notches because it has just escalated since he walked on planet earth. I suppose we will find out one day….

  7. So I was thinking that maybe Sarah should do her own podcast, and give a female perspective on this awesome Journey into freedom! 🙂 Not that I don’t love Wayne & Brad, it’s just that Sarah’s voice has a calming, reassuring tone to it that many would find refreshing. And YES, I am “angling” for some of those world famous chocolate chip cookies!…..You guys are really incredible! P.S. Come back to Nashville! Poppa is cool with it, I’m pretty sure! Much love!


  8. Paul referred to himself as “chief of sinners” and as one that had “not arrived yet”, so we know where he stood on the question of his own infallibility.

    But, the Lord touched Paul in a unique way. I believe that Romans 1-8 is his masterpiece because it is his clear presentation of the good news written to people that he had not met yet.

    Where I think Paul is mis-interpreted and abused most is when people take things that he wrote to churches where we don’t have all of the data. For example, the instructions in first corinthians chapter 5 that are often used to say that sinners should be excommunicated. There is obviously a bunch of information that we are not privy in these (almost personal) letters to churches – but people read into it what they want and use it to justify (sometimes horrible) actions.

  9. Alan and I have just listened to your latest podcast of your adventures in the UK and want to express our grateful thanks to Wayne & Sara for coming and spending time with us in Woking. We’ve spoken to a number of our folks since and the general concensus is that you both gave us such encouragement on our journey and affirmation that Father is in the midst of it all. Our love to you both!

  10. Shall we sin that grace may abound? god forbid…I know from personal experience that often when we are in rebellion (sin) doing our own thing inst3e3ad of God’s thing…we often look for some ‘justification’ because we are undner confviction. Perhaps tis is covered in the book, “Sins were Made but not By Me”. i lived many years trying to justify my rebellion,,,There was always this tension between what I knew was right within and hwat I “wanted to do.”

  11. An interesting study: was Paul supposed to go to Jerusalem? Many believers prophesied telling him not to go. So when Paul would not be persuaded, did they “cease, saying The Will of the Lord be Done”? or… did they “cease saying ‘the will of the Lord be done”‘? (no commas in the original, right?) If Paul indeed rebelled against the revelation to not go Jerusalem, the record also illustrates that God did not abandon him in the trouble that ensued. How encouraging is that for us fallible humans who sometimes make the wrong decisions!

  12. These days I’m getting more out of Paul’s writings by attempting to get a glimpse of his spiritual journey through his words. Then if it looks like he “got it wrong” in some places, I can relax in the knowledge that God was with him even there, leading him on into the truth.

    I think Paul would be distressed to learn that his personal letters had been compiled into a “New Testament Torah for Christians”. Especially when he took such great pains to explain how Jesus came to accomplish what the law could not.

  13. How I wish I had known you were here in Woking.Longing to meet with others who think the way you do.”He loves me” and “I don’t want to go to Church any more” were so helpful. I felt “The Shack” was just a child’s story but it made me think. I am a bit like your friend who asked questions about Paul. I loved your answers.

  14. I find myself at a lose on this one. Not because I’m in the inherent camp,(some what) I think I understand what wayne or waynes’s friend is saying (althought this was not the focus of the pod cast) I concerned about the ones who want maybe to toss some stuff (for lack of a better phrase) I don’t believe in the slightest that paul would have problems with his published letters, and may even wonder why we didn’t publish others, (im sure he didn’t just right the ones we have) These letters do need our careful attention though. If we come at them as if it’s in there then thats what we do, then we will always tread down the other guy because it becomes a hammer not a help or guide. If we say that this is a personal letter so what was the issue why did he say this, then we can begin to see the love and compasion in paul’s writing. I would however rather give paul the benifit of the doubt over say brad and wayne (sorry guys love your stuff and listen every week) he was closer to the time of Christ and to the origial apostles. I think there is truth in these comment sections but I would just be careful when playing with the word of God. Now I know that is a whole other arguement like, did the original councel who set up the canon have the right to say this is our canon, as far as I know only under Constentines rule. So word of God is somewhat a loose term like the king jame enthusiast saying the autherised version. But maybe out of fear as indicated in the pod cast I would still be careful.

  15. I found the conversation around the guy that was angry and his wife had left him interesting. They talked about how the x-wife was “sinning”, but didn’t talk about the way that the guy in the e-mail was. I also wonder about the change that has happened in my mind now that I see that Jesus wasn’t punished on the cross by an angry father, but that the two of them were creating a cure. If this is the case, then isn’t the x-wife, not sinning, but just showing symptoms of the disease? And doesn’t the husband have the same disease. And don’t we all. And isn’t grace just the medicine that we can take?

    I too am not trying to condone the “wrong doing”, but trying to look at it differently. Let’s say that we get poison ivy. We can either put medicine on it and it will get better. Or, we can ich it and it will have bigger consequences. Either way, we end up with some scaring.

    I love the Paul comment. That really makes me think.

    Looking forward to your comments.

  16. I have been on the road for most of July and was not able to listen to your podcasts, so I am eagerly catching up. Since I am weeks behind, not sure this comment will be seen, but the biggest nugget of many in this one was the descripition from England of church, as the group was sharing, loving, exploring, learning together in a non insititutional way. Just before leaving for 3 weeks I was blessed with having a house full of family (both biological and not). We were church all week. We sang praises spontaneously ever evening, broke bread together, shared what Father was doing in different lives, saw Father moving, heard from Him, etc, etc, etc. Amen! It will be a time I will cherish in my heart for ever. When I heard you talking about living a similar experience in England it was nice to hear, not that I needed “confirmation” but sharing what Father is doing I think strengthens us all. You are right I think also about not trying to “capture it in a bottle” which I would love to do, none of us wanted it to end. Far better however to savor the memory and look for what Father is doing next. My expectations (and trust) for living out of the extension of the Divine community have been raised, whitted, heighten. Blessings.

  17. One t hing that I think the community in the UK is that if they can identify what are the qualities and activities and attitudes that they have that really encourage successful community life, then it is easier for others to be inspired to try to have that same quality of life. Not to duplicate but to emulate. I am glad that someone shared the link to their story and I will look forward to looking at that.

    Also, it seems like Brad has a different tone to his voice. You sound more grown up–does that sound weird? It is almost more connecting and nurturing for me.

    thanks for sharing as always.

  18. Hi Wayne & Sara. Sadly I missed your visit to my locality of Poole, Dorset as I was out of the UK while you were here. You mentioned people of a like mind who have found alternative ways of doing ‘church’ who you were with while here in Poole. I might like to get in touch with some such people. Can you or anyone make any suggestions? Enjoyed the blog and hearing about yout time over here in England.

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