Wayne fills Brad in on his time in Rome and what he learned about the Roman Empire and how its priorities actually became part of the church of that day as it got lost in its quest for power and significance. We still see the traces of it today in all kinds of religious institutions that are focused on personal power, buildings, and compelling others to act like they want. That leads to a wider discussion about the nature of worldly power and how it always gravitates to the same place of control and manipulation of others. Why does that always win out, even for people who begin with a desire to follow Jesus and be part of his life in the world? They talk about their dream of real community and honest collaboration and whether or not it is attainable or sustainable this side of eternity.