Trusting Your Heart

Wayne is back from his two-week trip to Australia, and catches Brad up on some of his adventures there and some of the people he met all across the spectrum of faith—to pastors and congregational leaders and to brothers and sisters simply learning to live relationally with the Father. Part of their conversation focuses on the abuses of the religious system and how easily so-called leaders can lose touch with reality especially when they think themselves successful in numbers or money. How easily their ways seduce others to ignore the warning signals in their heart and go along even when Jesus' priorities have long been forsaken in the face of human appetites and imaginations. Trusting God's voice in our hearts is far more valuable than conforming ourselves to the opinions of others because we want to believe the best in them.

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  1. Thanks Wayne and Brad for another thought provoking conversation. It’s interesting how the institution mirrors some patterns being walked out in my family right now. I’m sorting out how to love each familly member, how to remain true to Jesus and His calling and what that means as I have conversations w/ different family members and decide how to visit and when etc. So much obligation and how to unpack loving them in this learning. Your conversation helps in that no…you don’t offer formulas but what I pick up is that I need to keep walking where i’m walking with Him even when it’s discouraging and there are moments of feeling overwhelmed. The encouragment is very helpful. Blessings

  2. You all are the second podcast that has spoken about being careful not to destroy or shut down the heart that allows us to hear and respond to God.

  3. Hey Fellas! Enjoyed the dialogue this morning! Wayne, I too exhibit anger when I hear of those “shanangins” you referred to with those “celebrity church” types, and the superstar syndromes of many “ministries”. But my anger is quickly overridden by the amazing freedom and love that I’m experiencing on my Journey. Then my anger has a way of deferring to sympathy toward those who are so distorted in their view of how the heart of Abba beats for His own, and what His plan and purpose are for their lives. I have many friends and acquaintances that are still trying to live inside that distorted space, AND even justify their existence there. I continue to pray that revelation and understanding would embrace them, and that they could break free of religion’s fear inducing grip on their hearts. Meanwhile, my process of living loved is FANTABULOUS!!! You’re closing remarks about trusting our hearts to hear God’s voice really resonated with me. That reality is making my journey sweeter every day! Thanks again guys! Keep slingin’! Peace!

  4. “It never seems controlling until you ask the wrong questions.” Oh, how true and I was an elder that was guilty of asking the wrong questions!

    Great broadcast and you really affirmed where I am. I left the last church I was at in April and have just been visiting and taking the time for space and healing. I’m trusting God to lead me to the next place, wherever that may be. I know for one thing, my view of the faith has changed–matured and I’m walking in a new, refreshing truth. I will not give in to the temptation to be validated by being able to answer the question of where I go to church. I also know that those so-called wrong questions was just the truth and people often react negatively to truth. So we have to resist the inclination to think there’s something wrong with us. It encouraged me as I was going through to remember the scripture that said Jesus could not do any miracles among the people. Not that I was a miracle-worker, but the idea was the same that because I was being rejected for walking in truth, I was not accepted just as Jesus was rejected by His own. So often, the truth will get you marginalized as you said, rather than being lauded. But it helped me to know I was walking a path that Jesus Himself walked.

  5. When I was 9 years of age, I decided to follow Jesus. Not “join the church”. I “joined the church” because that’s what everyone said followers of Jesus are supposed to do.

    When it finally became clear to me that I could no longer be a follower of Jesus and still excuse and condone what was going on in church, I left. But after years of believing that Jesus was the head of that thing I joined, it took a while for me to trust the heart of that 9-year-old boy telling me that “church membership” was not what I signed up for.

    Thank God for that childlike heart which always was, and still is, beating inside me.

  6. There was so much I enjoyed in this pod cast, in particular, after the usual opening what would appear to be a repeat of it but in fact was a mock-up done by, Raborn Johnson and Steve Sensenig, from Beyond the Box, and for those interested you can preview them here.


    Regarding some of the topic of trusting your heart, I read this afresh today, “Our heart has been made good by the work of Christ, but we haven’t learned how to live from it. Young and naive it remains. It’s as though we’ve been handed a golden harp or a shining sword. Even the most gifted musician still has to take lessons; even the bravest warriors must be trained. We are unfamiliar, unpracticed with the ways of the heart. This is actually a very dangerous part of the journey. Launching out with an untrained heart can bring much hurt and ruin, and afterward we will be shamed back into the gospel of Sin Management, having concluded that our heart is bad. It isn’t bad; it’s just young and untrained.
    It takes time to learn to walk with God in a deeply intimate way, and many challenges face us before we are accustomed to the way of the heart.”

  7. Well, what a surprise to hear my own voice on “The God Journey”!! I didn’t know whether to laugh or to enter the witness protection program 😉

    Hi, guys. I’m Steve Sensenig of Beyond the Box Podcast, and thanks for the shout out. I was “Wayne” and my dear friend and co-host Raborn Johnson was “Brad” in that mock intro you played. We have been podcasting at BtB now for over three years (although we took about 8 months off during 2010 due to life getting in the way), and I must assure you that our “infringement” was truly the sincerest form of flattery.

    Our podcast was greatly inspired by The God Journey, and grew out of the weekly lunchtime conversations Ray and I used to have over breakfast, discussing our journeys outside the institutional church. Many times, those discussions included discussing things talked about on The God Journey. My introduction as “Wayne” was completely off the cuff and Ray didn’t even know I was going to do it, although he jumped right in and went along. We had a lot of fun laughing about it (we actually do laugh quite a bit on our podcast) and I had forgotten all about it until you played it here!

    Anyway, keep up the great work, Wayne and Brad, and thanks again for the shoutout. I assure you, no attorneys are needed 😉

    steve 🙂

  8. Wayne, I just want to say that I really love it when you talk about how much you like to just hang out with people and get to know them. Love that you’re a “front seat of the car” kinda guy. Thanks for this podcast and sharing your journey.

  9. how many times we were told that our hearts are wicked and deceiving and that we must not ever listen to them.

    a few years back, you had a podcast about the love of God being poured into our hearts. that was an ah ha moment for me. from that point i began to believe and know that my heart ‘knows’ and it is my head/thinking which needs to be renewed by the heart-knowledge of Father.

    it’s no wonder the powers that be dissuade at every possible moment any paying heed to the heart. else, there would be more than a few out of work – and the ‘green room’.

    carry on, dear friends on the journey! 🙂

  10. No worries, Steve. We’d never go the attorney route anyway unless we are forced to by someone else’s misguided actions. We don’t know much about you guys, but thought it would be a fun way to start our podcast that way since someone sent the link to us. Much blessings to you guys and appreciate that others are sharing their journeys. Hopefully everyone will find others to share their journey with in the same way and eventually there will not be a need for either of our podcasts. That would be awesome!

  11. Wow guys! That was nuts 🙂 I never dreamed when we recorded that impromtu intro that it would be heard on the God Journey! Wayne, I think you might need a lesson in southern accents; that one was a little too Savannah 😉

    We definitely were not intending to make fun of you guys. Both Steve and I have really appreciated the God Journey and you guys were influential in us starting Beyond the Box. Thanks for the inspiration, your conversations, and for your sense of humor…you guys are great!:)

  12. It would be easy to get angry about all those abuses people talked about (by certain large church organizations). Laughing about it is probably much better. Just this morning I was reading Matthew 7 (Message): “Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned.”

    I guess that we’re not the only ones in history who had to deal with this.

  13. Jesus made it very clear that He came to serve and not to be served. He washed the feet of the disciples and sure didn’t feel it beneath Himself to associate with sinners. I wonder if the green room people would be willing to actually be like Jesus? Do they feel they have to be kept apart because of their special anointing? A very good example of bad leadership is King Saul. He had the gift of prophesy and was very self-centered, and power went to his head. How common is this in our day? God has gifted me, yet I still have to choose to have a good attitude, to live a life of integrity. It doesn’t make me any more special, or more spiritual than anyone else. Lord help me, if I ever allow the temptation of entitlement and power to lure me away from Jesus. Help me to have a servants heart, Abba Father

  14. I would like to comment on the last part of the podcast where Wayne and Brad talk about not being able to trust your heart when you feel something is not right. That kind of struck a chord with me. Now I know Wayne and Brad don’t like talking about stuff like hell, but for a guy like me, its a very crucial point in how I view the father. There is just something that I believe is in my heart that say’s God would not permit a never ending torment with no redemptive purpose, so for me, that would be something that weights heavy on my heart about the image of God. I mention it, because if its something like this that you feel your heart tugging at you about, then the “institution” will go ahead and try to proof text you to death about hell. They will say this is not up for interpretation or how you heart feels. (But of course I can proof text right back and end up nowhere ) Now this is a drastic example, but I’m sure they could and would do it with almost anything you don’t agree with or question.

    So is this an issue like any other that one could or should listen to his heart about ? Its a little more important than should I eat meat or not, or what kind of clothes I should wear, at least to me when I share the father with people.

    I guess my point is, if this is not something one can trust their heart about, then it seems kind of muddy to me what is and what is not.

    Rant over, thanks.

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