Don Zimmermann, a long time Baptist pastor in the Phoenix area, joins Wayne to share his journey learning to live inside the love of the Father and how it has transformed his own life, his family's life, and that of the congregation he has been involved with for multiple decades. People often ask if an established congregation can find its way into a more relational life together. The answer is, though it is rare, it can happen. This is an inside look at both the costs of that transition and the rewards of doing so. A powerful undercurrent to this entire dialog is how much more relevant this group of people hs become in the world when their objective was no longer "to invite people to church," but to simply love them the way they had been loved. We did have some audio problems with Skype on this one, but the conversation is worth listening through them.