Knowing God is More Than Knowing About Him

Ever since reading The End of Religion, I've wanted to talk to its author, Bruxy Cavey. During a recent trip to Canada, we had the opportunity to have lunch together and record some of our conversation along with one of their newest staff members, Sean Davidson. Since the podcast went long, we're going to play it here in two parts. In this edition Wayne, Bruxy, and Sean discuss the difference between knowing God as a personality in the universe and trying to serve him as a concept. If he's only a concept, history has demonstrated how we so easily allow human mediators to get between God and the people he invites to know him. Finally, in getting to know each other they also spin the doctrine wheel to explore such topics as hell, atonement, and place of theology in the believer's experience. Part two follows next week.

Podcast Links:
Bruxy's Blog and The Meeting House website where he is the teaching pastor.
Bruxy's book, The End of Religion: Encountering the Subversive Spirituality of Jesus
Sean Davidson at the Meeting House
We need some help clothing some orphans in Kenya


  1. Soooo love Bruxy and glad to know other folks are discovering him. He has some great videos on Youtube. I love the one on “Ordinary Radicals”. He has sharpen and clarify my view that is similar to the Anabaptist view of government and church not mixing. Can’t wait to hear this podcast when I get home! Thanks Wayne.

  2. Two of my top ten Christ thinkers together (don’t know anything about Sean so I’ll wait on judgement there). Looking forward to the podcast.

  3. Great podcast. Looking forward to the continuation of the conversation next week

  4. Such a breath of fresh air. Yes, I’ve delved into past podcasts to, but it’s still fantastic to get something current to reinsure the continuance of the podcast! For so many years I’d been trying to say what Wayne and friends say every week, but I easily fall into second-guessing; it’s something about my nature that Jesus is working on. I want to convey the living, loving Jesus to everyone so they will walk with and trust Him. The podcast is literally my greatest source of encouragement outside of Jesus talking to me, directly!


  6. Wayne, I can’t wait to hear this podcast and read Bruxy’s book, End of Religion. (It’s been on my book list for a while now). I love it when people that I love to listen to discover each other. I often listen to Bruxy, but not as regularly as I listen to you and a guy named Greg Boyd. Greg and Bruxy know each other. In fact, they often preach at each others Sunday gatherings. I’ve been praying for you and Greg Boyd to meet. Greg wrote a few books I think you might enjoy, Myth of a Christian Nation, Myth of a Christian Religion, Repenting of Religion. He’s read your book, The Shack, and loved it! I know he’d love “He Loves Me” and “So you don’t want to go to church anymore”. I think you would be able to offer him tons of insight in the new book he’s currently writing. You’re Jesus Lens series and Transitions (esp. “What do I do with the scriptures that make God Scary”) would be right in line with his new book.

  7. Really enjoyed that podcast…Full of great stuff…Loved Bruxy throwing in those topics to discuss….Have read Bruxy’s book and all of Wayne’s…
    I spent 20 odd years inside the institutional system, in “leadership” and the last 8 years outside on a crazy Freedom journey…Could never go back and often wonder and am curious,how people like Bruxy can live free inside the system and structures that I’ve begun to understand are sometimes born from deception and lies even not scriptural??
    I guess I’ll always have a lot of questions, after years of not being allowed to ask any…
    There’s a book I’m reading at the moment called “Raising Hell” by Julie Ferwerda, it’s Very interesting to put it mildly…would love to see her on your podcast….if paths ever cross…
    Look forward to part 2 and many more discussions with brothers and sisters on their own unique journeys…It’s enriching and encouraging…Thanks Heaps πŸ™‚

  8. Hey, For what it’s worth about “heaven” and “hell”? If we open our eyes, we see the the concepts of “heaven” and “hell” lived out daily. Thankfully, our Creator has “saved” us from both. If not, HIS loving grace poured out on the cross, is tarnished and we must hope in another. Do we put our hope in our “good-works” and become white-washed tombs? Do we yet hope in forgiveness or do we truly live in the freedom of it? Gman.

  9. Even as I was listening to this podcast I knew I would have to listen to both episodes at least twice.

  10. This was a bit different than normal. I have been asking myself a lot of questions on these topics however I have not had good experience sharing what I have so far concluded, have found this is not stable ground to build relationships on. I have learned from these podcasts that conformity is not as robust as acceptance. In fact I have been trying to live outside of my comfort zone and use acceptance as the reason for relationship, man those emotional muscles are weak!

    Finding common ground on doctrine is tough, I am struggling with this at the moment as it is an underlying question from most Christians. I find myself relaxing with non Christians as they don’t care about this stuff, they care about me and my family and I try to do the same. I have a dilemma, getting my theology right after my relationships! Used to be the other way round! U believ this about God = same as me = friend. Now I work out my relationship with God inside his acceptance and love, I am friends with my neighbors (literally) and I use Gods dealing with me to relate to them.

    Question: anyone else finding this confronting to their old doctrines? Relationships? comfort zone?
    I hope so, I struggle in most areas I am beginning to realize! Always have, just used conformity to remain comfortable.

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