The Yuck Factor

Ever had that yucky feeling about some opportunity, but overrode it because others might have encouraged you to do so, or because you thought it might be okay because everyone else is doing it? If so, you probably lived to regret it. Kevin Tupper again joins Wayne as they talk about our Yuck Meter going off just might be the Holy Spirit inviting you away from what human effort can produce, to open a wider door into his life and provision. That is especially true when it comes to sharing our gifts with the world. Whenever we serve our own bottom line, whether it is our thirst for money, influence, or visibility, we will find ourselves trying to monetize everything we do and slipping into the exploitive patterns of the world that may help us miss the very doors Father has opened to us.

Podcast Links:
Previous Podcast with Kevin Tupper on The Myths of Mammon
You can follow Kevin's on his website at Simple Living With God
Previous podcast with Kevin, Kent Burgess and Mike Rea
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Here's the latest on helping the orphans in Kenya.


  1. Wayne,
    Nothing like working out the body, soul and mind at the same time. I have started to do my daily routine listening to the podcast what an amazing way to start my morning.

    WOW, I finally have a word for what I was feeling. Yuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I loved this podcast. It confirmed the decision I made to walk away from “it all” if you want to call it that when the carrot of ministry was dangled in front of my face a few years back.

    All I knew then was the more I participated in the marketing of my so called ministry the more I felt like I was not enough.

    I am a woman with a background in recovery and knew that if I stayed the course that there was a huge potential for relapse in the area of pride not to mention what got me into recovery to begin with.

    I had the opportunity to start all over. Today I wake up and have to wipe off the residue of religious performance. I sit with Father and have to remind myself I AM enough!

    Today when I arrive to give or serve in my community, I come as I am no more no less.

    Thank you once again for your gift of helping those of us who have let go of religious performance find a voice as well as healing.

    Also, I loved how you shared about out reach to Kenya and not enabling but equipping, it is the very conversations I have been having with my teens.

    Thanks again Wayne for helping misfits like myself find our way back to the Fathers love, thanking HIM for you at this very moment.

    Cris Nole
    Living Life One Moment at A Time

  2. Two quotes together that made me go hmmmmm.

    “Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became a enterprise (business).” Sam Pascoe

    “It’s not personal, it’s strictly (business).”
    The Godfather, Michael Corleone

  3. For some added perspective to what I had hoped was being reflected,
    a quote to frame the picture that was painted by my previous reply.

    “God is more concerned with people coming to know him than he his preserving our religious institutions. But that is nearly impossible for those who manage institutions to understand.
    They are used to sacrificing individuals for the good of the whole, thinking that is God’s heart.
    If only they could see.” ~Wayne Jacobsen

  4. This was a down to earth but heavenly in the sense that it spoke truth to me.
    What really spoke to me was asking ourselves what builds the kingdom of God in the world and not to seek glory from others but seek God. You can’t go wrong with that!
    Two other things were mentioned …Get closer to Jesus and live it in the world ( (and I see that as something only He can show us how to do) and finally we live differently because we live in s different kingdom. That last point says so much to me. We truly live in the world but are not of it. Only God can orchestrated being in a different kingdom while we live out our relationship with Him in the world. I want Him to show me how that can be lived out in my life in a practical way. Lots to think and pray about here.

  5. Haha… the yuck factor. Know what you mean. It gets to the point that ya just can’t do it no matter how much you think you need the security or could you the money. It just isn’t worth it… and it gets to the point, even if it looked like it was worth it… you just can’t do it anymore. Maybe that’s the transformation that takes place. Nothing noble about it…. you just can’t stomach it….you just can’t do it.

    It’s funny that even when I think I can do it, and even try……. I just can’t do it. The nausea is just too strong. 🙂 Once again, I am so blessed by the journey that Kevin Tupper is on. Thanks for the podcasts. They are an encouragement to me as it reminds me that I’m not the only one that experiences Father this way.

  6. Thanks Daryl. God’s bringing me on this journey both with finances and opinions of others.

    They both work together and the solution is the same for both. The solution is so much of what Wayne’s teachings are about. The only place of healing and rest is a deep inner experience of Father’s affection for us. Its reality in our lives displaces all the junk.

    “Father, what don’t I understand about your love for me that is causing me to . . .” That’s a question that Wayne encouraged me to ask several years ago. I still find myself asking it when I recognize that I am not living in its reality. And God continues to reveal himself bringing me to greater levels of freedom.

    Further up and further in!

    – Kevin

  7. It’s funny, money that comes in at an average rate causes us to get out of bed each day so we can go to work and help someone by working for them, yet we fantasize about having so much money that we don’t have to get out of bed and go to work, and help someone by working for them anymore.

  8. The yuck factor talk was resounding within me with respect to some processing that has been going on internally of late. For about a year and a half now I have been going through some major internal upheavals. Many changes in my life circumstances with difficulty in making choices, some of which have altered my life significantly have been a part of the struggle. A deep place of fear is being shaken up revealing some foundational footings keeping me crippled in making life decisions. A habit of thinking that when someone proclaims that Papa has shown them something it is possible that he has not done so and I don’t need to accept that carte blanche. I have denied myself a place to question the misgivings or ‘yuck factor’ which to me sometimes manifests in a ‘void/nothingness’ feeling in an attempt to be supportive. Self degradation or self condemnation manifests if I lack conviction/enthusiasm for what the other person presents to me as being of the Father. I find myself wondering why I am not ‘hearing‘ from Papa like they are and I tend to shy away from disappointing or hurting the other through lack of being supportive, which ultimately spirals out of control.
    Recently that empty feeling became overwhelming in a situation. My plea to understand was met with a sense to go ahead and look deeper, listen more intentionally, ask questions, and consider two things. Who was responsible for that other person and their perceptions… me or Papa? What if what that other person was saying was really their wishful thinking to which they assigned Papa’s name? Things said and done began to reveal that it was quite possible this person wanted something so bad that they failed to see they were assigning personal wishes, hopes and dreams erroneously to Papa’s leading. For example, this person excitedly proclaimed that Papa had told them several things specifically about me validating why we should pursue a relationship. I asked how they were certain it was Papa saying these things. There was no substantial answer given. The list was embarrassingly awkward to listen to, and really lacked quality with reference to building a relationship. One item was actually so outside the nature and character of Papa that I was left speechless. Being free to consider that Papa would not ‘dictate’ something that was so contrary to his love and manner was probably the set point on which I was emboldened enough to weigh out the matter more fully and realize that I was not required to accept that person’s interpretation of the situation as being next to gospel.
    What I have been processing is not related to providing profit or public renown on a large scale. It was integral to an individual’s angst to accomplish a personal goal which imagined another being as the answer. It was not shaping up to be a cooperative relationship of two human beings. It was reducing the object of the imagination to a human doing, a pawn of sorts and it was quite dehumanizing.
    We need to learn to walk free from manipulations of others and circumstances be it in personal relationships or business/’ministry’ relationships. Papa does not manipulate or coerce people to accomplish goals… and neither should we.
    Thank you for posting this podcast. It is always good to have clarifications confirmed within the testimony of others.

  9. Valerie…thank you SO much for your post. Even though we are in different areas and different circumstances…what you said resonated very deeply. I also am facing some very challenging processing along the lines of others purporting to speak for Father and sometimes knowingly and sometimes w/out even knowing…laying their own grid on what they wish He would say. Not only that…but then further laying that grid out on others w/ great demands. I think the “yuck factor” comes in when we feel internally that “push” and I am slowly learning (along w/ you) that part of placing our lives in Father’s hands is to see the angst which comes from that kind of pushing as a “red light” warning. We know something isn’t right and we can run to Father and ask for His direction or sit very still until He provides clarity. May He bless and encourage you. Sue

  10. @ Valerie, re “For example, this person excitedly proclaimed that Papa had told them several things specifically about me validating why we should pursue a relationship. ” YUCKKKK!!! I’m so glad for you that you seem to have avoided that trap. I ended up getting married when I was very young because the person doing that to me was somebody I respected as a spiritual leader, and I can tell you, it was YUCK. He tried to make me feel like I would be outside of God’s will if I didn’t marry him. I almost want to throw up thinking about it now. Nobody ever has the right to do that to you. I am suspicious of people who are always talking about how God talks to them, especially if the thing God told them involves me. It’s so manipulative. It’s kind of like people who feel like they have to tell me they are honest. Why would you have to say you are honest, if you really are?

  11. When I heard the discussion about things being advertised as “free” but have strings attached that cost, I thought about God’s free gift to us and the old religious way of placing conditions on the gift.

    My guess is there are many of us who haven’t fully understood the word “free” and it shows in the way we live unloved. I can understand why non-Christians so readily disregard the notion that God is giving the gift absolutely and completely free, especially when the “now you have to…” instructions come after receiving the gift. That’s the yuck factor for me. In fact I know for the majority of my life I haven’t wanted to share the gospel cause I’ve felt like the underlying message was manipulative. I often questioned: why am I so afraid to share this good news?

    I’m so glad God hasn’t put any time limits on me learning to live loved and free. That’s the WOW factor now, and when I find myself in discussions with other Christians living under the old system, it’s hard to shut me up!

  12. Another podcast that is surreally helpful. Cris Nole up at the top expressed it for me very well.
    I am wondering what to do when your yuck meter goes off and people you are journeying with do not experience it and seem to be frustrated with me being at Rest. We all do the “push” and “pulls” that Valerie and Sue and Pat are talking about and we are unaware that we do this to each other in body life. I mean the examples they shared seem extreme to me, my experience is its more subtle than that. Not sure if that makes sense.

    Wayne says it somewhere long ago, the Message puts words in Jesus’ mouth that seem almost blasphemous to our ears because of the deep programming of religious and secular culture in USA. Listening to Kevin, very brave by the way, to be so transparent in sharing his struggle, reminded me of Lifestream definition of sin is grabbing for yourself what God is not ready to give. Or something like that. And then this passage just totally summarizes for me both podcasts. Thank you.

    “What I’m trying to do here is to get you to relax, to not be so preoccupied with getting, so you can respond to God’s giving. People who don’t know God and the way he works fuss over these things, but you know both God and how he works. Steep your life in God-reality, God-initiative, God-provisions. Don’t worry about missing out. You’ll find all your everyday human concerns will be met.”
    Matthew 6:29-31

  13. @Joni, thanks for adding your “e” voice : ) I appreciate the The Message from the perspective that it does lay out the bondage of “doing” and the need to rest. A favourite passage is Matt.6…and Romans 5 talks about “work” and how Abraham was justified as a “free gift” as you put it. For me it seems so very subtle (although blatant at times). I think that there are ppl who are not aware that this is what they are doing (sometimes with the best of intentions). There are ppl in my life who are not aware of how driven they are….their fear seems such a part of their everyday functioning. To share my experience of how I live through those conversations when they’re “pushing” me and their anxiety is “screaming” at me….the more I run to Jesus and silently scream “Help!!!” ….I find that in order to learn how he walks w/ me through that…I have to walk through that : ) Yesterday I could feel this person’s fear, I’m asking for His help and in that case….was given words and also the person’s heart was softened. Sometimes I would find a formula easier…LOL : ) Seems “it just takes time”.

  14. Wayne

    I always enjoy the podcast except for some of this one.

    I have been in business in American for many years. I have also worked concurrent with pastoring in rural churches. Due to business decisions by the last large corporation I worked for I am left without a retirement. Aging is an issue. Fear is real for our finances. I am in the process of launching another business which is challenging. My wife’s health dictates she needs to retire but cannot due to finances. We live a simple lifestyle and fortunately do not owe much on our home.

    ‘Nuff ’bout me. I have seen many, many small businessmen operate ethically and work lots of hours. They are intent on serving the customer and taking care of their employees. I am an active member in our local Chamber of Commerce. No, it’s not a sin to be successful. You made a pile with your novel and Mr. Tupper made a bunch with his invention. Money and success will merely magnify what is already in your heart. Poverty does not make you more spiritual of that I can assure you. It does make you desperate. Giving and tithing is also not a talisman to prevent financial upheaval.

    Don’t throw the American opportunity under the bus simply because you may choose to participate or not. When you have finances you have options which is nice. 83% of small businesses are unable to be sold leaving many small businesses in unfortunate circumstances. But when the church groups, mission trips, baseball, football, soccer, basketball teams, community events, Rotary, Kiwanis, etc. etc. look for money small business is the first place they stop. And small businesses give. They know they are the lifeblood of the community and return the favour.

    Quite frankly, I would love to hear from older folks forced to start business’s from scratch with little if any finances. You may hear a different story if they write in. After reading some stories you may not be so caustic and harsh. A walk by faith is very real for me.

    Thanks for listening.

  15. Mark, there’s nothing that we said, or intended to say that would take exception to what you’ve written here. Responsible business people doing what God’s called them to do in the world ethically and honestly, is not the stuff of mammon. I suspect we had a failure to communicate here, and I’m sorry you felt your hard work discredited in some way. That certainly wasn’t what we were talking about… My apologies.

  16. Thanks, Wayne. It seems successful businessmen (and women) are vilified in today’s press, yet shallow celebrities and people acting shabbily on reality shows are elevated. Our immigrants have many shining success stories through hard work and perserverance. In our small Oregon community our leading businessman has given away many millions of dollars in our town and throughout the state. He helped develop a dental chair that our Rotary group is helping market worldwide that can be carred on a plane, set up in a jungle, fully adjustable to make dental work easier for dentists, rather than trying to lean a chair back. We have a group of volunteer dentists that every year trek to Portland and offer dental service for free. The lines go on for blocks and blocks.

    I could go on and on. I have seen Christian faith through the business people in our community, working to spread the Gospel and making lives better for those around them. We’re not looking for the big hit revival or our names in lights, but simply want to help. Of course we have the occasional egotist but they are promptly lynched…………In Jesus’ name of course………Keeps things all neat and tidy around here…….

    Thanks for listening.


    Just kidding about the lynching part. Once I get a tan in the summer the marks hardly show…….

  17. Mark, echoing Wayne’s comments, sorry if we came across as dissing the small businessman, especially because I consider myself one. 🙂 My thoughts were more directed toward this “cult of celebrity” idea and and monetizing every aspect of my life.

    Are you a dentist? I have a friend in the Portland area whose life in Jesus is continually affecting his dental practice and his patients.

  18. Mark, thanks for fleshing that out more. That you would feel dissed by what we said on the podcast saddens me. It is certainly not the kind of life we’d disparage, but celebrate. We were talking more to those who are always seeking to find their fulfillment in money or disfiguring God’s work through them by having to monetize it all. I love the way you’re living and wouldn’t worry about what anyone might say that would seem to discount it. Blessings on you and your journey.

  19. Wayne,

    I have really enjoyed your newsletter, blog, podcast, and books over the years, and have recommended them to many people. Thank you for everything you do.

    However, I completely agree with Mark’s sentiment expressed above. As I listened to this discussion between you and Kevin, I felt loads of judgment and condemnation coming from you both.

    But then I got to thinking about it, and realized that (and I hope this does not come out as harsh as it sounds) this particular podcast episode was hypocritical. At least, that is the way it came across to me.

    I mean, even as I came to leave a comment on this post, I saw two advertisements on various pages, and an invitation to join an email newsletter. Yet in your conversation, you seemed to condemn both practices. Then I went at looked at your bookstore on your Lifestream website, and saw books and audio sets selling from $8 all the way up to $34.95. Like it or not, this is called “monetizing.” I am in the publishing industry, and I know that this is not the actual cost of these items, which means you are selling them for a “profit.” Is that wrong? I don’t think so, but you seemed to imply it was in this podcast.

    Also, your speaking engagements around the world, your podcast, your newsletter, your various blogs, all of this is “building a platform” and “personal branding.” If you truly practiced what you said in this blog post, you would travel and speak for free, give away all your books, CDs, and DVDs for free, not collect any email addresses, not send out any newsletters which promote or announce your books or your speaking engagements, make sure your podcast was anonymous, not put your name anywhere on your books or website, etc., etc., etc.

    But I doubt you will do any of this, because your personal income depends on it. Call it what you want, but you have built a platform. You have personal branding. You have name recognition. You have a following. You have monetized yourself and your message. Maybe it wasn’t intentional, but you still did it and are still doing it.

    Why then is it a “Yuck Factor” when other followers of Jesus do the same thing with the message and ideas He has given to them? Why is it Yucky for me to collect email addresses on my own blog but not for you? Why is it Yucky for me to post an ad or two on my blog to help cover the cost of hosting but not for you? Why is it Yucky for me to send out a newsletter but not for you? Why is it Yucky for me to sell my books but not for you? (Though in actuality, I give most of my books away for free… nearly 4000 in the last year alone).

    I am not trying to be critical. I just think that whatever you and Kevin were trying to say in this podcast came out all wrong and left many bloggers, authors, teachers, writers, and Christian small-business owners feeling very guilty and condemned. At least, this is the way I felt, and it sounds like this is the way Mark felt as well.

  20. Jeremy, I don’t know where to begin. You obviously heard what you heard, but you didn’t hear what we were feeling, saying, or what we hold in our hearts. There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding in your posting that I honestly don’t know where to begin and have no interest in trying to defend myself against your accusations. Perhaps you’re confusing what for why. You are definitely seeing absolutes where we admitted their are nuances of reality here. If you have no yuck factor in what you do, don’t assume we’re bringing condemnation on you. That’s neither what we feel, nor what we would pass out. If you really want a dialog, I’d be happy to walk you through what we were saying versus how you seem to have heard it. But given the tone of your email, I’m not sure that’s what you want. For now, I’ll just say this. I’m very comfortable with the reality of how I live this with what we shared. So either misunderstood what we said, or don’t have a clear perspective in how I live this. So it is sad that you’d jump to the conclusions that you have.

  21. Wayne,

    I am sorry if my comment came across as accusing. That is not at all the way it was intended.

    Ironically, it sounds like my comment came across to you the way your podcast episode came across to me….

    I fully admit that I probably misunderstood what you were saying. After all, what I was “hearing” and the way I was hearing it seemed so out of sync with what I have been hearing from you for years, I could hardly believe I was hearing it. I am glad that I misheard and misunderstood.

    So I guess my understanding is somewhere in here:

    I have no “Yuck Factor” in what I do, but what I seemed to hear on your podcast was that if you were to visit my website, you would have a “Yuck Factor” because I have a few ads on my site and because I collect email addresses for a newsletter so I can give away free books to subscribers. According to what you said on your podcast, if you visited my website and saw that I was doing these things, you would think “Yucky.”

    Yet it seems that what you and I do on our websites are almost identical. So I guess I am just really confused as to what exactly you were saying. Could you clarify for me?

    If you prefer to discuss this by email, that is fine. It is jmyers AT

  22. I understand how others could maybe misinterpret the program and the feeling that business principals, and diligent work are bad things if they use marketing techniques to build their audience .Somehow the point was missed that the church machine uses these same business models to build their congregations to the detriment of real relationships that are governed by love for the individual without manipulation to fit into the body of believers.
    I have never received a solicitation for money or product from Wayne even though I have commented and given to the Kenyan needs. He shares the need, but you have to research it yourself to know more. Other ministries fill my mailbox with requests for more money or free product so I will send a gift. I have started requesting no mail from them after I give.
    Thank you Wayne for addressing these subjects .

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