When Creations Clash! (#458)

So what do we do when you're wanting to embrace the new creation, but are bombarded by people whose passion for cash, credit, and control only seek to draw you back into the old? Wayne and Brad continue their discussion about one of the themes in Wayne's newest book, Finding Church, and how we can live that out the reality of the new creation when others around us are embracing the realities of the old. How do you continue to live free when others around you are fouling the relationship with their brokenness, demands or agendas? Discover that, and you can enjoy living wholeheartedly in your relationships, with unity where you can and generous honesty where unity of heart has not yet come. We can live in the world, and not be of it. This is the final installment of a three-part conversation with Brad.

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  1. Great podcast again Wayne. Thanks. I’ve really enjoyed having Brad back these past weeks. Although, when you’re on your own there’s a greater intensity which is good in its own way. I find the analogy of the butterfly and talk of the ‘new creation’ hard to grapple with. If I’m understanding you, I think you are refering to people who are re-generated by the Holy Spirit who are either walking with, and in the Life of the Spirit (butterflies), or who are merely doing ‘Christian-like’ things, but in their own strength, in the flesh (caterpillars). Some institutional meetings actually get people into the Spirit for an hour or two. People fly like butterflies for an hour or two then they crawl out again like caterpillars. But I believe every true believer can fly and HAS flown at some point even if they didnt understand what it was. The subtle deception of the institution is when you are flying into glass windows trying to get out. You are sure there’s Life outside but you just cant reach it. And you are told by the others that the reason you want to leave is because you are in the flesh, acting like a caterpillar. I have personaly flown out, but that doesnt mean I never have my ‘caterpillar moments’; times when I go through the motions in my own strength. Actually I have too many of those for my liking.

  2. Thanks Wayne and Brad for another great podcast!

    Several things came to mind as I was listening to this. One was about the seasons of things, whether it be belonging to a group or having a relationship. What often seems like will go on for a long time sometimes ends abruptly, and the key for me is recognizing when the end is, and more importantly, handling it in a positive way. I realize about myself that sometimes I do look at things with a negative bent, or find fault when I know the end is near or has already happened. It is usually when I am tempted to carry on with something I know is destructive for me, or simply when I want it more than the other person. Many times I am not astute when it comes to seasons of things. Relationally it’s like wearing shorts in the middle of winter. Its fear of the unknown or being alone. When will I get it through my head or into my heart that Jesus is enough, I cry?

    Another thing that came to mind was 1 Corinthians 6:7, the passage about allowing yourself to be cheated. I once was let go of a job where I was not paid for vacation time I earned, and in my darker moments, thought of suing for it. It amounted to about a week’s pay. I figured by the time I figured in court costs and lawyer’s fees, most if not all of that money would be gone. So I let it go. It gave me peace of mind knowing that God was going to take care of me through this, that I wouldn’t need this money, and over ten years later, am working in a more suitable job with sufficient pay.

  3. I think the analogy of the caterpillar and the butterfly is appropriate for the church today, except the religious spirit present in much of the church today is like the wasp that lays it’s eggs inside the caterpillar and once the larva hatch they consume the caterpillar from the inside never allowing the caterpillar to become the butterfly. The butterfly is fragile and is most beautiful when it is seen moving from one source of nectar to another. Moving from one plant to another is dangerous, but is necessary for the plan of God to come together. Without the risk we are destine to be a caterpillar waiting for the wasp rather than working to become the butterfly. Once the butterfly’s wings are dry, it is drawn to seek out sources of nectar around the earth. The church was meant to be a fluid moving thing. If we are hearing the voice of God, we should be willing to move from plant to plant. Living here in the deep south, the bastion of religion, we are viewed by many as an invasive species of butterfly.

  4. David, Great post about the wasp and the butterfly. Interesting point:”Without the risk we are destined to be a caterpillar waiting for the wasp rather than working to become the butterfly.”

  5. And a dysfunctional church where people are running to the leader(s) to know what they should do, will eventually wear down said leader(s). It’s a never-ending cycle: you create rules to follow (or they were already in place when you arrived) effectively binding people from independent thinking, they come to you to know what to do or are paralyzed into inaction as they wait for you to act, you get worn down by their co-dependence and on and on it goes.

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