It’s a Relationship Not a Performance (#476)

hopeWayne's back from his Southern Swing through Georgian and South Carolina with a fresh passion to help people discover a transforming relationship rather than let them stay mired in lifeless religious obligation that will only lead to frustration and failure. He shares some of his experiences in his most recent trip and an amazing encounter on the way home that helped bring freedom to a broken heart. Some of our listeners join in with their comments as Wayne talks about moving from religious rituals into a vibrant life in him with prayer and with engaging his work in the world. Finding ourselves in a relationship with a Father who has great affection for us changes everything and then following him is not a cumbersome chore, but an endearing reality as he puts his glory into the world.

Podcast Links:
Up for Debate: Wayne's Interview on Moody Radio on Saturday, March 7 at 12:00 noon Eastern time
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  1. Great story Wayne! I have been in a few of those places you talked about.
    After reading The Shack and He Loves me, and after being beaten half to death with ‘right doctrine’ for about 22 years by DTS Pastors, I put my bible on the shelf for about 5 years. Just last month went out and bought a parallel bible of The Message/NASB so I could get back in and begin again with fresh eyes! I’m LOVIN’ it! Its so great that my need to take this route was so OK with God. He is beyond patient and opens doors when He sees we are ready. He’s awesome.
    Thanks for all you do Wayne. I am blessed because your heart is with Jesus’ heart and you want to live His agenda and not your own. So many people need to hear about the Real Life we can have in Him, and you are so willing and are so capable at communicating Fathers heart to the rest of us. Then we learn to communicate to those Father puts before us-its just so beautiful…

    Have a great day tomorrow-sending prayers for your conversation.

    • Linda…you have certainly stirred me about that 5-year shelving of the Bible. I have felt so down about not even wanting to read mine…and prayer has been pretty scanty. It has been like what am I, a reprobate??

      You have given me reason to think this is all part of the journey.

      Thank you for your comment.


  2. I enjoyed hearing the story of your experience on the plane. It seemed to capture the nature of “God using us” so perfectly. I was reminded of Ephesians 2:10 in the context of doing the good works. We are reminded that he prepares the good works in advance for us to walk in. It was clear to see his preparation in your plane experience. Beautiful!

  3. Love the Ephesians 2:10 reference Tom! The plane experience is such a wonderful example! Wayne, I love how you tied that all together with the Sarah’s garden example. It is a great mind picture with beautiful simplicity! Thank you!

  4. Tears of joy erupted, just poured out of me, when you shared the Love of the Father with him after he ws so down. I was even surprised at the joy that bubbled up in me. I needed that joy, because I know it is the joy of the Lord over us (me)…not my human joy.

    And the process of how your “paths” crossed to the point of not going to 1st Class. God directed your steps. Glory to God. Joy for you, Wayne!!

  5. Very encouraging podcast, as usual. Thanks!

    I love how honest you were about not praying for the man who sat next to you on the plane.

    “Be Thou My Vision” is also one of my favorite hymns. Another is “Oh, the Deep, Deep Love of Jesus.” I can listen to those two hymns all day long.

  6. Hey Wayne,

    Thought you did a fantastic job debating Mr. Leeman. Not really going to comment on specifics, but I would like to say that there was a real contrast in the tone and mood of what you presented versus Mr. Leeman’s thoughts. I do not want to seem harsh, but listening to Mr. Leeman reminded me of enduring some form of legal discourse reminiscent of something heard in a courtroom. No sense of passion or heart for the body or the gift of fellowship. Just a cold summation of the “do’s and don’ts” so many associate with what this world has come to embrace as Christianity. Honestly, it made me cringe!

    Regardless, I enjoyed hearing you “sling freedom” as only you can do dear brother!

    Blessings to you and your lovely wife!

  7. Hi Wayne, You were great on the Moody Radio “debate” but it made me sad. It probably reflects more about me than the other speakers but it sounds like the most important reason to go to “church” is so man can be accountable to man? Or as a “sacrifice” as I believe one person said.

    Maybe this is what Jesus was talking about when he spoke to the church of Ephesus. (Have I heard you say this?)

    They miss the whole point of joining together out of love for God and one another. Love sometimes seems like a “dirty” word or something not to be trusted.

    Thank you so much for making the Word come alive.


  8. Hugh “yuck factor” when Mr. Leeman spoke. I disagreed with many, many things he said, esp how closely he linked salvation with “church membership”. Doesn’t seem there’s any freedom in Christ or confidence in the Holy Spirit’s leading/convicting. I’m so relieved to be free from the obligation (a word he used often) of attending a certain building at a certain time on a certain day of the week. Continuing on this God Journey! 🙂

  9. The most frustrating part of the podcast is how little time there is for actual debate and position development. It was more like an opportunity for a limited number of sound bytes.

    However, I was surprised to find out that “you shall know them by their love” has been changed to “you shall know them by their organized church membership”. ……excuse me while I pry my tongue out of my cheek…..

  10. I can see how there is great concern about church membership. If the mandate is to get as many people “saved” and part of the “church” then full churches and mandatory attendance all very important to indicate the success of this mandate.

    Jesus said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

    I ask myself the question, does the above commission require a large building, a mortgage, staffing, programs, tithing, etc.? What is making disciples anyway? Followers of Jesus, or followers of an organized group of people? What is following Jesus?

    All my life I was looking for what everyone seemed to say was a relationship with God. They talked about it, they said how important it was. But was there actual experience to back it up? I am not talking about the pursuit of spiritual orgasm which seems to be the focus of many worship services. I am talking about daily simplicity of awareness and contentment in His presence and promises. The ability to walk out your life with an assurance and confidence in his love without the need to perform. To be with and walk with Him “in the cool of the evening”.

    I have a taste of it now. If you have tasted it, you do not want to go back to what was before. I think that is the ‘yuck” factor here. We have tasted something better, and what we had before was a cheap imitation. That taste may have been small, but we crave more of it. We pursue it, we long for it. We do not want to fill our mouths with sawdust any longer.

  11. Wow, the airplane ride was wild. I was stunned when you said “you could not get more different than me and him”, and it hit me, this is your prodigal brother and you are the older brother. I know this conversation happens all over the planet, different ways different places and so on but because Jesus is building His church and you got to skip first class and a conversation unfolded and a reality was realized; that the Father was getting what He always wanted from both kids. Actually living inside the house of His great affection. That story in the narrative is so heartbreaking because Jesus leaves it with the older brother (rules path) walking away from the celebration for the younger/prodigal (rebellion way). And so each time this kind of encounter happens the story is completed. And the church is being built one by one by one…
    This is so cool older brother. So grateful once again.

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