"If you can systematize it, you can monetize it." That advice was given by a consultant to a group of ministers telling them how they can derive more income from their ministries. Brad joins Wayne again for a discussion of his recent article, Monetizing Ministry as they explore why we have created so many religious systems, from institutions to curricula as a substitute for helping people into a transformative relationship with Jesus. At the core of all of these systems lies someone's need to make a living rather than to freely give to others what God has given them. And yet these systems never pay off what they promise, which can only be gained out of a growing relationship with God himself. For those who have felt like God is not reaching out to them in that way Brad and Wayne spend some time hoping to give you a different way to approach it.