A Passion For What’s True (#597)

A variety of reactions to an earlier podcast about God's judgment, draws Brad and Wayne into a further conversation about how we explore truth inside a relationship with Jesus. Is it enough just to seek what makes us comfortable or sets us at ease? Our exploration of his love does not negate our hunger for truth, but actually intensifies it. Love is the conduit in which God brings truth, especially the difficult realities in our lives. They talk about what touchstones they use to help them know if what they are seeing is just a comforting thought or the truth as God knows it. They talk about the value of listening to the Spirit, finding an anchor in the story of Scripture, and giving weight to the thoughts of those further down the road than they are. Paul's passion for righteousness did not change after his conversion, only the process to find it, did. It was no longer something he could attain by keeping rules through human effort, but that which would flow out of a growing trust in the Father's love. But want it, he did!

Podcast Notes:
Working Through the Story of Scripture: The Jesus Lens
Helping with Agriculture in Pokot
Add your voice to our question/comment line via Skype at "TheGodJourney"


  1. Not everyone had a Father like you. Wish I had been that Mother. But with the Love of Jesus, I can turn around. The truth sets free.Thanks for this mornings talk.

  2. I know, Ellen, and am grateful every day for the heritage I’ve been given and seek to pay it forward a thousand times over by loving and befriending others who need someone in their life to show them love and trust without every betraying it. Would that everyone had parents like that, but we all have a Father like that, and hopefully some friends who can reflect a bit of that to us as well.

  3. We have a problem in this podcast, in the terminology that we use. We assume that everyone is on the same page with respect to bible terms. We discovered a few weeks ago that the term “judgment” revealed 1001 understandings of what it means to different people. It was very helpful, Wayne, when you shared your new understanding of the word “wrath.” Also that God had expanded your idea what wrath actually is. Maybe we should be sharing our new understandings as we perceive God reveals more to us?

    As God gets more real to me, He overhauls my belief system from the inside out. This includes an exposure of my preconceptions and anything in my mind that keeps me from a true knowledge of Him. This includes an expansive redefinition of all those “Bible terms” I grew up with. I thought I understood them, when I understood none. You see, there is a depth of meaning in those terms that we miss when we think we understand them. There is always MORE to any spiritual concept. I’ve realized that He alone can show me the more of what “love” means; the part that I had missed. Or judgment. Or truth.

    Our preconceptions get us asking questions that don’t really matter. Questions that don’t upset our religious sensibilities. Questions of the surface, rather than the depth. Our default surface Christianity defines “truth” as a thing: something we believe in (a tenet of faith), or a collection of facts (verifiable information). But what if truth is much more than that? What if the truth is not merely a what, but a who?

    Jesus himself said it: The truth is someone we relate to. “I AM the way, the TRUTH, the life.” “You shall KNOW (have a relationship with) the truth, and the truth shall make you free!” The truth is someone other than anyone else we know. The truth is a divine person that relates to a human person. Our relationship with the divine truth person is unlike any other relationship we can have. Explore the more!

    This relationship cannot be compared to any other relationship we know. The human to human relationship rules do not apply. This has no give-and-take, no trade-offs, no compromises. This IS your real heart-to-heart, your real soul-mate. This relationship seems to move in only one direction. The truth draws you in so that you let go. Let go of everything “other than.”

    Coming to know Him has led me into truth I have never conceived of before. It leaves me wanting more. This is a totally different level of relationship. Unfamiliar. As this relationship of divine to human unfolds in me, other relationships unfold as well. The way I relate to scripture now is totally different. “I will lead you into all truth.” Unfamiliar perspective. Very refreshing!

    Jesus made an interesting statement that triggered Pilate’s question. “…for this I have come into the world, to testify TO THE truth. Everyone who is OF THE truth hears my voice.” Pilate: “WHAT is truth?” Pilate, like most of us, couldn’t see past the “what” question. Pursuit of truth, the thing. Jesus’ statement, his reason for coming, answers the “who” question.

    It is interesting to me that the title of this podcast mirrors the question Pilate asked Jesus: “What is truth?” I would much rather ask a “more” question. So are we discussing truth, the thing, or TRUTH, the person who is real?

  4. I got a speeding ticket a while back and when I got home I had an amazing peaceful feeling about my experience in the cop car and couldn’t shake it so I finally asked God what’s up about this and He showed me He was answering my prayers on how to parent my kiddos…when I got in the cop car the cop never told me how wrong I was or what I should have been doing he said, “so I see you have lots of groceries…on your way home from shopping?” He was very kind to me and then told me he is lessening my ticket by lowering my speed (usually I get warnings 😉 but God showed me that when I am parenting/disciplining there are consequences and sometimes those consequences get lessened or even taken away with mercy but there is never shame or condemnation simply wanting to spend time with your children and see how their life is going for them (asking about grocery shopping) how beautiful! That verse in Hebrews about His discipline I used to try to avoid and hope it would never apply to me that I could behave perfectly and never have to be disciplined because I want to please my Daddy I don’t want to ever displease Him…but like the cop I never felt displeasure…it was simply consequence but God showed me that amazing peace feeling I was having was His presence when He diciplines us and I would take and run to His presence in discipline…I love that place. His discipline is not what we and many first think it is…it more time with Him and safety and goodness for us.

    This year I’m praying and focusing on learning more or His grace and no condemnation…He gently spoke to me one morning and said. “I never ever ever condemn you”…it was SO cool because He used the very words I have mistakenly used with my girls when condemning them for some sin they do I say something in a harsh voice:(..”never ever ever do that again!” How beautiful that Jesus helps me and corrects me with gentleness and no condemnation…He didn’t say, “you are doing this all wrong you are not supposed to do it that way” And using this gentle way to correct me made a lasting never memorable lesson to me.

    This is getting long but one more thing: my girls and I had devotions on John 8 “the truth will set you free”…I said today we are going to catch each other living in the truth…whenever they did something lovin to their sister God prompted me to tell them they are living in the truth…it’s not just telling the truth/not lying but love is truth…when we love we are living in truth and are free!
    I just found a homeschool group called Wild and Free….we LOVE this and love being WILD and FREE in His Kingdom….Love and truth empower us and it’s a wild and awesome and free journey…sometimes I can’t even handle it with how many opportunities He continually gives to outpour to others….there is nothing boring nothing selfish nothing that I ever ever feel held back by when following God…nothing I don’t think we can maybe ever possibly be able to “handle” the incredible freedom He has for His kids…..when we experience this there is no time to think about what is allowed and not allowed…it’s living, moving breathing Him exciting thrilling THANK YOU Papa we LOVE you!?

  5. Thank you for another great podcast! Some of this podcast spoke directly into a space I’ve been exploring with God and confirmed word for word using the exact same scriptures I had been drawn into and felt He was making Himself known through… I know this is prerecorded by up to two weeks and maybe that is why I find it so extraordinary that your conversation with each other once again confirms and advances my own conversation with Father with such precision ! You don’t quote a lot of scripture usually on here but you quoted the same passage I read yesterday that really impacted me!?!?! Thank you for being most likely unwittingly a unique part of the ongoing conversation with Father in my heart … Your voices are both appreciated there!

  6. Hi there!

    Well, I just post it here.

    On the topic on judgement, maybe its the best and most relational approach, to make God enjoy and maybe even delight in what we do on earth – but not regarding salvation, which is solely by grace through faith.

    But I feel stuck beeing naked before God, not knowing what to say, sometimes feeling connected with Jesus in heart, but sensing there is another, more wholesome way of communication in the spirit. But communication is the wrong word, not merely talking with God (which is done apart of it all hard enough to discern anyway, y’all know), but engaging God for real. Not saying beeing connected in the heart (without words) is of any less worth, maybe its the food of the kids (in the spirit), yet essential, the pathway to discern the voices. Without it its possibly not possible, because the devil is smarter, acts like beeing God to deceive the people with wrong assignments to get stressed (but the fruit of Gods spirit is …).

    But I like what Brad recently said, if we know Gods voice, we can discern Him out of hunderds other voices, but my problem with this is, to me God seems to speak not all the time with the same voice, the spirits voices are different that human voices, one can see deeper behind that voice, because they speak to our soul, and maybe God more to our spirit in the beginning, which seems to me to have a different reality of seeing and hearing, more like vision, but maybe sometimes He speaks to our souls too, but He knows its hard for us to discern, but I think He would like to do this more, it just seems to me that most (probably including me) are not rooted and grounded enough with our hearts in His, that it would make really much sense, probably God sometimes does it still even if He knows that we dont get it, or that we once again misinterpret it through our smart filters. But I think we can feel the spirit behind that voice, so to say, if we know Gods spirit, we can feel when its God speaking. And I’m thinking about 2. Peter, somewhere at the beginning where its says: “… With these qualities active and growing in your lives, no grass will grow under your feet, no day will pass without its reward as you mature in your experience of our Master Jesus.”

    Brad and Wayne, to me this scripture promises that we get to know Jesus better when we focus in life, apart from love, faith and hope, on these “things” Peter wrote in the verses just before the quote. Maybe “focus on” is the wrong word, but if its true, these would be some of the most valuable focuses to have in life at all, because nothing is more worth than to get to know Jesus better, with results in multiple regards, and I dont even want to focus on all promises in Christ, not to lose focus, but all things around us change if we get to know Jesus better (except from God and his Word for sure), but probably most needed, ourselfes. I remember you guys talking about this wonderfully so many times, “we change from glory to glory, as we behold Him”, well, sometimes its not so gloriously at the beginning.

    Cheers brothers and sisters, Jesus is alive

  7. I am sitting near the airport exit having a coffee while waiting for a colleague to land…..

    There are many people waiting, scurrying, and preoccupied on their phones. A little girl screams in delight when she sees her father coming out of baggage claim. No fear, no hesitation, just shear delight to be back in the presence of her father.

    My heart leaped as I realized that is how I should approach God. Become like a child: no fear, no measuring up, no concern for what is going on around me or the circumstances I am faced with. Just the delight to be with my Father.

    That child knows how to live loved!

    As I write the above, I also reflect on a recent experience when a taxi driver dropped me off at home when returning from a business trip. My 18 year old son came out and gave me a hug. The taxi driver was amazed at his expression in the presence of a “stranger “.

    Now…. I am amazed how God speaks and connects things together. No need for all of the frustration to “get it right.”

  8. I was debating about submitting this piece, but in light of your comments, Bruce, (and others) I decided it might be helpful…

    I had suffered some major losses in my life. I could not figure out what God had in mind. I did not ask for or seek to be comforted. But it turned out that comfort was exactly what I desperately needed. In fact, it was that overwhelming sense of comfort and safety that I first recognized as God. I had never seen God in this way before. But “the God of ALL comfort” caused me to recognize Him. I knew in my heart of hearts that it was God. I believed. I knew I had encountered the God who is real!

    That sense of comfort and safety is the very thing that drew me in. The truth embraced me! I knew that Truth was a person that I could trust. A person who was trustworthy, a person I could entrust myself to. So I let Him take me by the hand and explore what is me. I knew I was safe to open the door and let Him come in. I knew I was safe to let Him into my deepest, darkest secrets. I knew I was safe to let Him heal my body, my mind, and my very soul. I knew I was safe to let Him untangle me. I knew I was safe to let Him transform me. My engagement consists of entrusting myself to Him. A faith produced by a growing trust.

    God seems most intent on establishing the real relationship between Him and me first. As I learn to entrust myself to Him, He weans me off of those other things that I have trusted in throughout my life. There have been very many things I have entrusted myself to that were not Him; that I believed were Him. If He were to remove them all at once, I might implode or something. But gradually He makes me less dependent on those things and more dependent on Him. That is the relationship.

    I did not know that comfort from God was what I most desperately needed. I don’t know what you most desperately need. You might not know what you most desperately need. But I’m convinced that God met me at the point of my most desperate need, and in a way that I would recognize Him AS God. In a way that I would surrender to His presence without question or reservation, because I couldn’t help it.

    My prayer is that everyone who reads this will come to recognize Him AS God. I don’t know how He will do that for you, but I do know that He wants to BE real to everyone on the planet. Watch for Him. Expect the unexpected. Look for The Truth to embrace YOU!

  9. Hi Wayne and Brad. Recently there was an episode in which Brad described a 6 hour experience that took place in his hotel room in which he felt very connected to God. This experience seemed to grow deeper the longer it went on, according to Brad. A discussion then ensued about why when people have these types of experiences do they try and bottle it up and do something with it instead of just appreciating it for what it is and looking forward to the next one. The consensus from Wayne seemed to be that people do this because they want to make their experience seem as if they are on a different level than others. That they are up here and others who haven’t had these experiences are down there. I would propose that while this may sometimes be the case, it is often times that we do this because we are afraid we might not experience anything like it ever again. For some people, these moments are fleeting, they are few and far between and we want to do everything we can to try to grasp on to it and use it to help us as much as we can because we don’t know when, or if there’s another one coming. We want to make something else of it because we fear it may be the only experience like that that we ever get.

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