Becoming One with Love (#781)
"We are slowly embracing the kind of sacrificial other-centered love that let us leave positions and privileges and entitlements and become one with the brokenness in us and around us and a way that us from the pain of self-centered thinking." These are the words Wayne read in a recent email from his friend Stephan Vosloo in Ladysmith, SA that began to describe the journey he has been on into what it means to become one with Love. Here are excerpts from a subsequent conversation they had about the journey out of our selfish ambition and into an others-centered way of living. They talk about the progress and choices of that journey and the liberation it brings to allow God's love to unfold inside of us and spill out to touch others as well. If you listen to one podcast this year, let it be this one.
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Wayne this is the best podcast I’ve heard for many years. What an amazing interview which sets us up for the the real life we are all looking for but don’t know it.
Thank you soo much for making this public. We all need to hear this one.
Bless you for sharing this.
After leaving the structured form in 2005, this podcast stretches me further than I can assimilate in a single hearing. I get some of it, but numerous more hearings after thotfullness and prayer will be needed over time to approach a greater awareness of the fullness of the Truth contained therein. I am blessesd to experience deeeeeeeeep encounters with the Lord in my devotional time, but there’s a lot of self that still needs to go. This will be a definite catalyst in my journey.
I enjoyed the convo ….deep stuff. If Stefan had said to the Lord he was not going to share anything but obviously now he is ….is that bc ?
Re the audible voice … I would like to hear more on that….was he the only one who heard it, what was the circumstance/background ?
Thanks for sharing.
JKB, I let Stephan answer the second one and even respond to my comment here if he wants. We talked a bit about the first one. I think he meant he wasn’t to share them at the time. Remember, this was all prior to 2013 and he has not talked about them until now. We talked a bit about whether he wanted to share them so publicly or not, and he felt free to share them now. Some things are seasonal and now they are a part of his journey and felt free to share where the Lord had taken him.
Thank you Wayne – you are correct about the sharing. I was a pastor at the time when this happened and was used to share what I felt the Lord was saying to me the next Sunday. That was limiting what He could share. My commitment not to share was purely to allow some space for my own growth. I shared some things slowly but never publicly until now. My own spiritual growth freed me in the last year from desiring recognition from the experiences and I think I am now free to share carefully. It is definitely a new season. Regarding the audible voice. I heard it as if someone was speaking somewhere deep in my head. No one else heard it but it was meant for me only. It was miraculously confirmed by the worship leader who said, “Someone here is begging God to tell him what his ministry is. God is going to do that now”. The next moment my own cry for insight was interrupted by the audible voice. It was a complete surprise because I wanted to know for months which of the “Fivefold ministries” applied to me. I only found out what it meant along my own journey about 25 years later. It would have been a problem if I built a doctrine on it or wrote a book about it or if I would use it to influence any decisions, for then you need two witnesses at least. It happened three times in the last forty years and every time it only happened because I was facing a crossroad and without that communication would have made a wrong choice. I have now learnt how to slow down enough to hear the still small thoughts that were always there but I was just too busy securing my ego-place to hear. Experiences and voices are not God’s best way of leading us. As we see in the life of Jesus, Intimacy is his first choice.
Thank you Stephan for sharing your journey into love!
You touched so many places in my heart that I struggle to wrap my mind around. The kindness and love with which you have come to speak to the “old man” shifted my own conversations with the “old man” still left in me. I have tried to starve him out and ignore him in endless ways, I’ve even tried to avoid situations where he would show himself. He has made me cringe often. Ive decided to go on this experiment with you to love him enough till maybe one day he no longer feels the need to speak up. I think that was the most touching part of the podcast.
I feel as though a war has ended in me in some way, my heart has been captured and is safe inside fathers love and he (the old man) has been my prisoner of war, and instead of killing him…. Jesus is inviting me to love him my enemy for so many years… This is SO counterintuitive for me but sound like something he would invite me to do…
I too have experienced moments with Jesus and father more visual as you describe or try to … especially starting out on this journey. I have often felt strange because of them and unsure of what is just for me and what to share with others. I have had a strong bias against these sorts of experiences due to my childhood and how my Dad followed his dreams into a strange destructive cult leader type position causing much harm to his family and those in his path.
But what do you do when God makes himself known to you in a way other than what is safe to you?
Thank you for sharing. I love the thought Stephan shared about learning to love others not because of anything in them that is loveable (even though there is) but simply because that is what Love does….it (He) loves. I believe God gave me a gift to see this in a “vision” at a huge swim meet. People were everywhere and all of a sudden it was as if I could see with Gods eyes for a few minutes. The love for the other was so overwhelming I couldn’t handle it for more than a few minutes without just breaking down into tears. I was so struck but the absolute beauty of each and every person because that is the truth that God knows about them even if we don’t see it. Other centered Love! He keeps no record of wrongs….always hopes…
Thank you so much Harvey. I loved this: “ I feel as though a war has ended in me in some way, my heart has been captured and is safe inside fathers love and he (the old man) has been my prisoner of war, and instead of killing him…. Jesus is inviting me to love him my enemy for so many years… This is SO counterintuitive for me but sound like something he would invite me to do…“
I agree. It is so counterintuitive. Your subconscious is registering your response as foreign and it takes time to receive it as familiar and not fake news. Initially I felt like a hypocrite every time I loved the unlovable part of me but now every word out thought that has the love trademark is going in and I am seeing the results. It is remarkable. Just don’t give up on loving.
Thank you Joan for being vulnerable and sharing your experience. I love it. Some of my mentors wrote about similar experiences and the effect was life changing for everybody. Love just has that transforming power. I practice your vision many times during the day when I look at the lady at the till, or a crowd on TV or a politician, or an animal or a flower or tree and connect with Father’s love for them. It has been amazing to get the breakthroughs at times when I actually feel the love. The other times are practice runs.
Wayne, a great podcast! However, I’m really challenged to hear all that he said clearly. Do you have a transcript that you can share?
A good set of earphones does it for me (hearing impaired). I can hear it with really good clarity.
Of course a transcript would be the ultimate.
Thank you so much Paul for the encouraging response. I think for me everything hinges on identity: who am I really? When the temptation to return to the pigsty of ambition and self-seeking arises, (which happens a couple of times a day, depending on the level of provocation I face), I have learnt how to identify where the thoughts and hurtful reactions come from. My practice is to actively think whether those thoughts or my unloving reaction could possibly be alien to me; to who I really am. For that, I had to identify who I am. Once I became good at doing that, I started to identify the thoughts and reactions as different from who I am and it became easier by the day to not allow them to nest in my head. Paul calls the practice, “reckon yourself dead to sin but alive to God”. After a while it also became easier to ask forgiveness for reactions and to not take the usual condemnation. I guess it is what Paul meant when he said, “there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit”. I think what happens is that I turn involuntarily to the Spirit in me when I look for my real identity and away from the self-centered reactions (the flesh) and then I feel no condemnation and can still feel good about myself in spite of my obviously self-centered reaction. From that stronghold, I can ask forgiveness and forgive easier. in this context, I think that was Paul meant with “walking according to the Spirit” for the flesh will always accuse me of not living up to expectations, but if I identify with the Spirit as my core identity, I find myself actually free to choose to live from that power and not from any other identity.
I do not at this point, but I am working on one. Computerized transcripts get so much wrong, especially through his accent and it will take me a while to clean it up. Unless there are volunteers out there. 🙂
Wow…listening to this made my heart sigh with relief.
And put words to things my heart has been beginning to recognize, but not enough to be sure where I want to go with it.
Thank you so much for sharing this!
Going through a couple brutal years a while back, I remember a moment when Father made me aware that in a particular situation I was struggling with..the people around me were ok with me being wrong, and willing to accept me regardless..and Father was accepting me. The only one who wasn’t was me. That one that needs loved until they can be quiet…I saw that in me as a little child with a teary dirty face, scrubbing at her cheeks with her little fists, sobbing..and begging to be accepted, heard and understood.
The deep frustration I have always lived with begin to be dealt with the day I started accepting that little girl.. And I only was made aware of it being the answer to accept her..because I saw my Papa accepting her first.
I started being ok with being wrong..
To just be open to learning when it happens…started…lol
And very slowly mistakes are transforming in my eyes as opportunities to grow..and to understand Fathers heart in ways I have not before. That yes..here too…I am loved.
Also….listening to this podcast made me recognize more clearly then ever before that part of what I have been struggling with lately..is still wanting others to recognize me. I knew I still did, but it felt deeply exposed, and strangley felt like I got permission to let it go. I know this will continue to be a journey, but this touched my heart so much and resonated so loudly that YES. THIS is what I want.
Stephan, your journey with Father sounds like a journey in Narnia to me, with our Lion leading the way.
It made me smile when God told you that what you wanted he was going to give to others, as I know it is not what it sounds like.
I couldn’t help but think of what Aslan tells Susan and Lucy, after he came back to life in “The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe”That if the white witch had understood the true meaning of the deep magic, she would have understood the true meaning written in the stone tablet. That death itself would start working backwards.
There is a much deeper magic at work. Ah…this all makes me feel like laugh crying.
So very glad to know we get to journey with each other, as it is so incredibly encouraging to hear this good news. Thank you!!
Yes, Monica, it is a beautiful but challenging journey and it is much more bearable when we walk it together. It is a journey into Love and that makes it a very difficult journey if you don’t allow Love to be both your Destination and your Companion.
I love your reference to CS Lewis. I loved how you describe “accepting the little girl”.
Matt Licata, (PhD), a psychotherapist, has an interesting take on our “undesirable” emotions and how giving them the unconditional love and acceptance they crave can actually bring lasting change. I have found that I have to acknowledge the emotion, receive it as coming from my subconscious, take a long look at it without trying to analyse its origins, and then bring it into the vast reservoir of love that it is in me. I try to love whatever arises. Somehow that causes it to “rest like a weaned child with its mother”. I noticed much less acting up with time for the child in me slowly becomes satisfied and loses its desire for attention and love.
When the “undesirables” act up, Matt Licata describes them like this:
“It’s as if a child were knocking at the door and just wanting to be let in for a moment, seeking refuge from an exhausting journey, asking for relief from carrying a burden across a lifetime. How would we respond to this little one when he or she appeared—tired, cold, frightened, and lost—just longing for some rest, some affection, and a safe place by the fire? I think many of us have a sense that we would open the door and allow the child inside—feed, clothe, protect, and hold him or her.” — A Healing Space: Befriending Ourselves in Difficult Times
Stephan, I’m still at the halfway point of #781 which I cannot get beyond until it’s meaning has penetrated my heart to where I’m comfortable in moving on. For every time I listen there’s a deeper connection and understanding of our Lord’s desire for me to walk more and more into the freedom from self. Surely Jesus has given and empowered you to share that which countless others have been longing for also.
In hosting a home ministry, I find myself from time to time locked in a tedious struggle with my old nature. Your rendering of that has been extremely helpful. As I become free(er) from the prison of self and entering more into the freedom of “others-centeredness” God has been incredibly gracious , patient, kind and loving, and again, your willingness to share was and is a real “game changer”.