Days of Reckoning (#814)

How are these days not the birth pangs for the end of the age?  With the fall of Kabul in Afghanistan, the wildfires in the U.S. And Europe. a devastating plague, political animosity, wars and rumors of wars, and irresponsible spending by government leaders, what makes us think society can just go on without a reckoning for its excesses and deceptions?  Scripture seems to show us that God has days of patience, where he forebears with human weaknesses as he beckons us back to himself, and when those fail, we also know God orders times of reckoning where we reap the painful consequences of our waywardness, in hopes that painful times will turn our heart back to the Father. Wayne and Kyle discuss whether or not we are entering just such a season, whether it is the final time or not, and why this is a great time to let God invite you deeper into his love.

Podcast Notes:
USA Today article: The Cover Culture War
My Friend Luis, the podcast
Order Wayne's new book Live Loved Free Full

11 Comments

  1. Thanks Kyle and Wayne for a thoughtful discussion on this topic…left me with a longing to quietly ponder and know God better.

  2. Our comfort zones actually grow to be idols of our hearts, don’t they? Does that make sense, Wayne? My history of legalism “provided” me with many dark clouds. i.e., fog that blinded me (the veil mentioned in 2 Cor. 3:13-15) due to the continual internal dictator of the law-based script. For decades I sought approval/acceptance, with no understanding of His grace…and I still have those “should twigs” pop up to trip me.

  3. Have listened to these thought provoking podcasts for years and they have helped me greatly in walking out of a background of insane religious legalism. So thanks for that. In regard to this particular podcast and the vaccine, there are those of us who have very legitimate reasons why we can/will not take it that has nothing to do with anger, rebellion, personal freedom or not caring about our neighbor. Some of us have a medical story that goes way back, some of have diligently researched both sides of this issue and have to make a choice that seems to go against the ‘common
    good.’ Yet very few want to have a discussion with us as to why we’ve made that choice. We are labeled as crazy, selfish, rebellious conservatives, right wing weirdos who don’t care about others. If you had a few hours to sit with someone like me and have that conversation maybe you and others would at least try to understand a different viewpoint. Don’t forget, ‘the language of healing’ hears all sides of a debate before reaching a consensus. But that’s ok. Still love you as a brother in Christ. Will continue listening with thankfulness for all God has shown you as you continue to walk in love and freedom with Him and share it with others.. Just thought you should know not all us “anti-THIS vaccine “ are mad, foaming at the mouth patriot crazies. Some of us are just being careful. By the way so incredibly touched by the “The My Friend Luis” story. Wow! Thanks to both of you for all the effort of putting that together for the world to hear!

    • Diane, I have listed to many of my friends who refuse the vaccination. I don’t fight or argue with their conclusion, but I do listen. I think the point of my remarks on the podcast was that I’ve not yet heard a good reason from someone I know except for medical concerns that make it impossible for them to get the vaccine, but they hope others get it to minimize their risk. Of the vast majority refusing the vaccine most that I know only have political reasons for doing so that are more reactionary than well thought out. I’m always willing to listen to anyone’s views here, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have my own as well. Glad you still love me. Love always allows for disagreement…

      And I don’t think I said that anti-vaccers were all weirdos and extremists. Many of them, however, have not thought this through a lot and are only reacting to misinformation they’ve seen on the ‘net. If more people don’t get the vaccine, these variants may just continue to rifle through our population with disastrous results for some.

  4. Well said Dianne. Not all that make the same decision that an extremest makes reached that conclusion for the same reason.

    I have listened to All of The God Journey podcasts. Many days now I even live loved. Not sure I could have found myself here without these resources. It doesn’t mean that I like or agree with them all. But that’s OK.

  5. Thank you Wayne and Kyle for all the effort you put into these podcasts that seem to run so seamlessly. I am your age Wayne, and my sons are Kyle’s age. These podcasts keep me thinking and I appreciate hearing Kyle’s point of view as well. I also appreciate that you can state your point, not back down or be intimidated by other’s opinions and at times verbal assaults and agree to disagree gracefully. We can all learn from your example.
    As a nurse, your podcast felt spot on. Many needing cancer, heart and other surgeries are having long delays which can mean significantly worse outcomes and many nights of discomfort and anxiety. Other’s rights seem to eclipse their’s, since 8 out of 9 of the hospital beds are occupied by non vaccinated patients with Covid 19. I totally understand those with medical reasons or violent responses to other vaccines. And, I do listen to those who want to wait, or have read “the truth” on line opposing this vaccine. Yes, I even know some doctors and nurses not wanting to be vaccinated. So I know there’s no consensus and words seldom make a difference. Many chose to trust the internet than their own doctor who has managed their health issues well.
    But I especially appreciated your entire podcast today about the condition of the world, politically, environmentally and the deep division here in America and in the world as well. You cover a lot of territory in podcasts such as these and yet end it reminding us of His great love for each of us even if it is time for a great reckoning . Words we definitely need to hear. I’ll be cracking open Ezekiel.

    Many thanks to you and Kyle for continuing to produce these podcasts.

  6. Thank you Wayne for sharing. Have been away for a while, so listening now seems appropriate. I come from religion, actually a cult where we were taught end times means flying to Petra to live in caves. Sounds ridiculous now, but when that is all you know or taught it is truth. Have long been released from that viewpoint but what is left is how does this all play out? Are we at the age of persecution where our beliefs are tested?
    On the vaccine, I am pro vaccine, and would not hesitate if there was transparency where both sides could be shared in open forums. FDA says PCR test does not meet requirements, yet still allowed to be used. CDC approving vaccine without open comment process that has been in place since start of vaccine program. Discounting of theraputics, that do work. Vaccine efficacy waning to 38% after six months. Don’t think it’s asking to much to have transparency before agreeing. And, being told you cannot eat, shop, workout and it work in your profession without taking a vaccine with no historical use data seems extreme to some. What that reminds me of is Revelation… I think some want more time to decide. And, breakout cases of vaccinated are occuring, but you have to look for the data as again, no transparency.

  7. Wayne I too love your heart with much insight and encouragement over the years. I believe if you dig a little deeper behind the so called vaccine you will see the truth behind the damage and deaths from the Jan. Fyi check out the true medical info from the leading doctors if you get a chance. Dr. Peter McCullough, internist, cardiologist of medicine, has reviewed 123 medical manuscripts, published chapters in 33 medical textbooks, lectured in 371 national and international medical forums, received 109 grants for cardiovascular research and published 857 medical abstracts and peer-reviewed manuscripts, as well as Dr. Malone who was the developer of the mRNA so called vaccine. IAlso Dr. Tenpenny and Dr. Mercola are other doctors that would ne helpful to research f you are sincere about understanding both sides of the issue. Grace and peace always.

    • Dave, thanks for your gracious comment. It does concern me, however, when people assume I haven’t looked at this issue from all sides, just because I don’t come to the same conclusions they do. It’s really a bit condescending. I have looked at this from a lot of angles, talked to medical professionals that I know, and lots of people I know who disagree with me. I know that no solution is perfect and you can find support for any position you want, much like the way people read the Bible. If you prooftext you can come up with “biblical proof” for any action you want to justify. At this point, I am sincerely pro-vaccine as the best way for society as a whole to deal with this pandemic. Reasonable people may differ, but please don’t assume it’s because I’ve only looked at this from one angle. I realize it may not be in the best interest of every person, for medical or other reasons, but on balance, it’s the best way we’re going to get past this and minimize deaths.

  8. After listening to this, I have some mixed feelings about part of this discussion about the vax. At first when the vax came out I made a decision to wait and see how it went before I jumped on board. Since then I have personally seen or heard of others who have had serious side effects and I do not feel encouraged.
    Already, my 88 yr old mother took the Moderna vax and she ended up in the hospital twice where she underwent a battery of tests with no diagnosis and wassent home to deal with the pain in her torso with opiates… To add to that she now has swelling in her legs with no known cause on top of that. Two different Christian brothers who I share prayer requests with online, one from the US and one in Canada have both shared with me similar stories. One who had a cousin who got vaccinated and died suddenly thereafter.. The other brother requested I pray for a friend of his who got vaccinated recently and began brain bleeding and along with 17 ministrokes. Add to that the FDA came out with a warning about potential heart issues risks with Pziefer and Moderna, all the while I am dealing with my own heart issues. I have concerns.
    I respect everyone’s decision to be vaxed or unvaxed but I do take exception to being shamed by those who got vaxed as though I am selfish for not doing my part to help humanity. I have a wife and a son with a disability whom God has given me to take care of first and foremost. As a follower of Christ, I always understood my family comes first. Our Father has not impressed upon my heart so far to get the vaccination except to practice safe covid guidelines. In the meantime the truth will come out in the end whether the vaccinations were effective or not.

  9. I so appreciate you guys. This is a very timely podcast for me as on a personal level I have been going through a time of reckoning, or I prefer “shaking” which I heard you use as well. Reckoning leaves me with an image of punishment by Father which I don’t think is what is happening on a national or personal level. Rather I see this as part of the process of shaking me free as I grow in trust and He is with me/us in it. 

    Certainly my current health situation as well as the poor health of our country are the result of poor choices, not listening and thinking I know what’s best. Unfortunately Father allows us to have our way. It initially seemed to come out of nowhere but it is easy for me to look back now and see I am exactly where I am at because of years of a false belief(still unpacking) and ignoring the warning signs even as they got more obvious. I never had a sense of rejection though but rather a deep knowing I am accepted and loved (which minimized the shame) as He is shaking me free. Actually in the couple of weeks leading up to going to the hospital I had a deep sense of my belovedness and praying along those lines. Wow. So the consequences of stupid and the completion of His work are happening at the same time. The paradox of life on this planet. 

    During my stay in the hospital and the time after here are a few of the things I believe He put on my heart. I think they fit with this podcast. 
    Romans 8
    -God is working good in ALL things. Even in the consequences and pain
    -Creation groans in labor pains yet waits in eager anticipation
    Acts 17:28 along with 1 Cor 3:6-9
    -these leave me in awe at the vastness and goodness of God. 

    Then these couple of song lyrics that propel me forward with hope, expectancy and perspective:
    From the place where morning gathers
    You can look sometimes forever ’til you see
    What time may never know
    How the Lord takes by its corners this old world
    And shakes us forward and shakes us free
    To run wild with the hope
    The hope that this thirst will not last long
    That it will soon drown in a song not sung in vain
    And I feel thunder in the sky
    I see the sky about to rain
    And I hear the prairies calling out Your name -Rich Mullins

    So heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss
    And my heart turns violently inside of my chest
    I don’t have time to maintain these regrets
    When I think about the way
    That he loves us -John Mark Mcmillan

    And then this quote of Christoph Blumhardt:
    “The world is experiencing an immense transformation, and everything is being shaken up. And yet in the background there are quiet but powerful currents of peace, grace, and goodwill among people. God strides forward. The hidden Christ is at work.”

    It’s inevitable.

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