Mary’s Story (#832)

Out of a Buddhist upbringing, Mary came to know Jesus one year ago, alone in her room after watching a video online. A month ago, she wrote Wayne and Kyle telling them that she was struggling to understand what it meant to be a child of God or how to interact with the church. We invited her to a conversation, asking if we could record it in case her struggles would resonate with others. She agreed. What we got was an amazing story of God inviting a young 20s woman into his love freedom, while the religious voices around her were trying to fill her with obligation and guilt. She struggled to sort out what Jesus was doing in her against the counsel she was getting from others. We pray Mary is a firstfruit of God's outpouring among young people and hope our conversation with her will help others divide between the voice of the Sheperd and the voice of strangers.

Podcast Notes:
Order Wayne's book Live Loved Free Full


  1. Wow…so thankful Jesus caused you folks to cross paths among those on the real journey.

    It’s interesting to see in the scriptures that “if you walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another.” So..then, fellowship already exists as one walks inside His light minute by minute, day by day. God’s revealing true fellowship to me has had a lot to do with letting go of my own false expectations. But this is simply the work of the Spirit within our hearts.

    I come across those who claim to be, yet there is no fellowship when as we cross paths; and then there are those occasional crossings where there is no expectation, yet fellowship is very evident. Wayne brings forward a great point when he mentions God revealing Himself to Abraham.

    Not to tout “wayne-isms here, but his series on life stream about Father’s glory is a must hear for everyone. I was given a dream where I was with Wayne and another (I live in Indiana); Wayne spoke to the other “No, a new revelation.” Then he leaned into me and whispered “because you fear Him.”

    I awoke and pondered this in my heart after I wrote down the dream. Little did I realize: a while later I was working in the basement (on some over due projects) and listening to the series on Father’s glory. I am still processing, well, the Spirit within me is still very much performing a work within. It is a journey, not an accomplishment for sure. Much love Mary…you two too!


  2. I am already crying, ” This is what I was missing all along, Jesus himself”… My Jesus did this. He did the work of captivating Mary why does the church get so religious and try so hard to “convert” the “lost” and shackle them with chains so they get trapped in the man cave of religion instead of it was for FREEDOM that Christ set us free! Here He is, just loving his bride back to himself, without religion, without bondage, just love and freedom. There is a day coming when this will be the norm, when we will be dancing through the streets out of those caves because these ugly manacles of religion are trampled by the feet of a loved up bride just Knowing and loving her bridegroom and becoming herself.

  3. This has to be my all time favourite podcast, I loved listening to Mary talking. So clean and free, almost as though Jesus himself was conversing with Wayne and Kyle. *When I came back to Father” what a statement, beautiful!!!
    That is what happens but on hearing Mary say it like that moved me to an experience of what it was like in the beginning of my own walk. Reaching for the tissues whilst these warm cuddly feelings where washing around me like someone opened a door and suddenly you’re sitting in a warm bath with uplifting aromas wafting about.
    The excitement, the fun, THE FREEDOM with a pure sence of adventure, where everything is asking, what’s next Father?
    Such a great heart, untainted but those legalistic voices of religion. A special thanks for Mary allowing us to hear her walk. It’s kick started me out of what has been a rather dry period.
    Thanks brothers for airing this too. Yeehaa! ?

  4. Wow!!!! Wow!!!! Wow!!!!! Me! I’m here Mary…and I have a sister who grew on her own with the Lord just like you! I learn from her every day and I just learned some things from you right now. 50 years it’s taken me just to get this far…as far as I can see you going in only one year. You are precious. I’m so glad to be your sister!!!

  5. Thanks Mary. I love the fact that as a new believer you spoke 2 to 3 times or more about the “Kingdom”. Few seasoned believers have a kingdom attitude. Too often in my past when I would meet a newer believer that had a different church affiliation, I would have kind of a subconscious agenda to convert them to my brand of Chuchianity.
    These days I’m more simply evangelizing people into God’s single Kingdom for all people. Apokatastasis, That is my WORD for 3022, the Restoration of all things. Acts 3:21.

  6. Dear Mary, loved listening to you, it’s amazing how self aware you r on this journey, tuned in to the Spirit. At the end when u said ‘Bible study group which I am no longer a part of . Praise God. ‘ lol I can relate to that feeling …to be free from the obligations of religion.

    I’m just amazed at the questions u r asking and the strength u have to resist the religious box. Of course God is working something mighty in u.

    I ask God all the time how he expects those from other religions to believe in Jesus seeing what a mess the institutional church has made. So to hear ur story is refreshing and also confirms just how much the IC can be a stumbling block.

    Well it’s his work and it will get done. I must say that is very brave of to come on the podcast and share. Mercy beaucoup.

  7. One other thing I meant to say : I am so thankful u have found ur way to the God Journey. So much good learning and encouragement here.

  8. I so appreciated this conversation, and Mary’s openness to share with us…thank you, Mary! It is so refreshing to hear someone new in the faith share how the Holy Spirit is speaking to her, and how she’s learning and growing. It reminds me of some verses that have been ruminating in my mind lately: “But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true–it is not a lie.” 1 John 2:27a

    My memory is a little cloudy this morning, but I believe there was also a conversation about how the institution likes to tell us how to walk out our faith, and Mary has already experienced that. I, of course, resonated with that because I experienced it as well. But I had to share a recent experience to the reverse end. A friend recently expressed how stance on me not being in church, and some other things, all of which were genuinely done in love. However, I didn’t appreciate the assumptions. Rather than just express that to her, it became a conversation where we were talking about how she might express her love to people differently (fix vs allowing the holy spirit to work in people’s lives). She has been very gracious with me, and it took me several days and the kindness of God for me to see my own hypocrisy. I don’t know if anyone else struggles with this, but I do find I really have to work to not swing the other way and judge or catalogue all the things I feel are wrong with the institutional church, and learn to love better, remember it is all in God’s hands and not my place to judge how they feel led to worship him. I just need to focus on how I feel close to him. It’s a confusing tightrope at times.

    Anywho, I just wanted to share my experience this week, not that I felt it was expressed at all in the podcast, but just my own personal struggle with the institutional church and a dear friend that has been patient with me.

  9. After listening to this pod cast I was really blessed, but I was also dismayed .

    Are we at the point where “Christianity” and the organized church has come to the same state that Jesus warned about when he said to his disciples in Matthew 16 to beware the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees? I read Matthew 12 recently, and over and over again in this chapter, Jesus’ approach runs afoul of the religious establishment at every turn and finally with his own family.

    As I listened to Mary’s story, I pictured the lame man who was healed being confronted by the religious leaders and harassed (John 5). He was healed for crying out loud, and they got hung up on legalities and procedure. The same thing with the blind man in John 9. The wonder of the miracle of healing (salvation, freedom?) was shoved aside by procedure and a desire to control.

    It is so good to know through Mary’s story that God leads in spite of (dare I say it?) His church or His people.

    I continue to struggle with finding relevance in the idea of church as any assembled group. I can relate to the body of Christ through individual believers, but as a joint entity I am no longer sure. It sort of reminds me of the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11. “Come let us build ourselves a city .. let us make a name for ourselves … lest we be scattered abroad…” There seems to be a natural human inclination to want to build something monumental together … but then God scatters it. Perhaps this is what is happening now?

    Anyway, thanks Mary, for sharing your story and journey. It gives hope for my own journey.

    • Hi Mary

      Just want you to realize that myself and many people listening to this podcast will be praying for you.
      You’re in a family!
      Pray for us too please. Some of us are like the ones who have pushed institutional thinking on people for decades before we realized that it was a prison.
      So we understand the guilt and the anger and the different thoughts and feelings that come and go.
      It’s hard sometimes because most of my Christian friends are still in institutional churches. I still relate to them and accept them as Christian family, and try to encourage them, ‘right where they are at’ in the Lord.
      A couple of them are ministers. They try to hear God every week and walk with Him and they feel a sense of calling on their lives. I’m not going to to challenge that calling. I just try to be a friend and encourage them in the Lord, and support them in what they are doing.
      Neither am I going to join their church! Although I might attend now and then, purely as an encouragement to my friend.
      Wayne has a ton of good teaching on his website. Hit the menu button and then ‘free stuff’ and you’ll find stuff like the Jesus Lens, Transitions, Embracing His Glory (I was stuck with my wife in China in 2020 when that came out! Wonderful!) and loads of other stuff.
      It’s worth listening to some of the early podcasts as well. Brad was Wayne’s co-host back then, and some are very funny, and some good subjects are discussed.

      Lastly, I noticed that you used the word ‘risk ‘. You took the risk the contact Wayne and come on the podcast. Thank you! You don’t know how many people you have encouraged. Much appreciated!
      When Wayne came to Britain in 2013 I had a chance to meet up with him and a few others in someone’s house in London.
      Man, I was so scared.
      The podcasts had convinced me to decide to stop being a ‘churchgoer’ in May 2011 (it was a conscious decision I made) and after that I was looked upon as a heretic.
      What if Wayne really was a heretic and I’d fallen for his error?
      I found him to be a very very ordinary guy, with a lovely wife and a massive heart of love.
      Shortly after that I returned to China and married my wife (who also had been a Buddhist), and I haven’t looked back.
      So, thanks for taking the risk.

Comments are closed.