Seeing God in the Moment (#840)

"It's easier to look back at circumstances and see that God was with us even if we couldn't see it at the time. Why do you think we miss God's presence in the present?" That question sums up Kyle and Wayne's discussion about being led by the Spirit in the day-to-day circumstances of life. They begin by talking about the difference between presumption and trust in our perception of God's will and why God isn't as clear with us as we would like him to be. Could it be that the struggle to see his will is actually strengthening the spiritual muscles that will allow us to follow him, much like a butterfly emerging from its chrysalis? And is it possible we contribute to the fog of uncertainty because we are looking to avoid risk or difficult outcomes?

Podcast Notes:
Luis' Story
Wayne's upcoming Travel


  1. As I listened to your recent podcasts, the subjects really resonated with me, and echoed so many of the things I feel Jesus is leading me in. In a recent conversation with friends, the following scripture came to mind, and I have been meditating on it. I wanted to share it here.

    Joshua 5: 13-14a
    And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?” So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” …

    What I found so interesting here is that while Joshua wanted to know which side the Man was on, the Man (obviously God/Jesus) refused to take sides as Joshua perceived them. The Man’s response indicates that He was acting not in response to man’s understanding, but was acting according to His own will.

    As I meditated on this scripture, I had a sense that it would be best to not join with a group of people in positions of left or right, or for or against – and not even a centre position. Perhaps we need to join with Jesus in a position that is ABOVE – and in doing so, recognize that we know very little about how God thinks. In other words, maybe keep my mouth shut.

  2. Wayne I would be interested in the ‘book club’ although time zones may be a challenge being in the UK.

    Today felt the need to re-read chapter 3 of “So you don’t want to go to church anymore,” it relates to present challenges for me. This book has certainly helped me not to be sucked back into the vortex of a religious vacuum.

    Whilst I acknowledge, Wayne, the desire to avoid the frustration readers experienced (I was not so much frustrated as looking forward with eager anticipation) there is another important benefit. When we have a book in our hands, most of us want to move through the plot to arrive at the sense of satisfaction at it’s completion. However we discover far more through being drip fed and meditating on thoughts may be for several weeks even months, where we don’t rush on to the next challenge of God reframing our understanding. You express this at the start of the 3rd video in the “Engage” series. Perhaps this continuing story of adventure could be a series of booklets.

    Well you’ve let the cat out of the bag now Wayne, the eager anticipation is already begun.

    Regards including from friends in Wales

    • (Wayne) I probably shouldn’t have let that comment about the Jale Colsen Book Club get out there. Lots of people have let me know they would love to do it, and I know that scheduling such a thing across so many time zones may be a nightmare. So I’m “pondering” all of this to see if something clearer emerges in my heart. When it does, we’ll announce it on The God Journey and on my blog at

  3. When I heard Jack’s question towards the end of the podcast, the word “witness” instantly came to my mind. It’s interesting that the entirety of the scriptures always speaks of “witness”, not “predictor”, presumption based upon false expectations. Oh, how we love to figure it all out from one prophecy! Father’s faithfulness has little to do with how I “perceive” things in accordance with fleshy eyes. But we cannot see anything but the possible next step. One of my quiet statements to God is…”I trust you, I don’t trust myself to hear you correctly every time. It’s me I doubt.” I ask for discernment, and it is sometimes like peering through that “fog”; pursuing His peace is the only thing to mark the intended trail, but this too is a process that unfolds. And I love how we can veer off course and He is able to get us back on track with little effort of our own.

    In this modern auto fill, copy and paste, one size fits all, follow the system or trend world, we have a Father who has tailor made us for all He has for us within our time frame here. No one is a mistake. I love how when pressed to give an answer of who’s good or bad, Jesus would by-pass it and simply say, “This is for the glory of Father.” Peter pulls out two swords to take; Jesus says “it’s enough” to let Pete know he was thinking with his fleshy mind…and yet, He knew Pete had no real idea about what was going to be going down in a short time from then.

    P.S. I am not sure I could tolerate sitting through one of “those” services these days, not even out of curiosity. There is no appeal… The more folk claimed to be different, the more similar they proved to be; all chasing the same traditional empty promises…oh, you almost made it! Try again from the beginning! No thanks, I’ll walk over here with Father if’n you don’t mind.

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