Did We Get Sin Wrong? Part 4 (#906)

Wayne and Kyle ran out of time last week, so they continued their exploration of how God might view sin into a third week, where they incorporated more comments and questions from their listeners. Part of their discussion talks about how easy it is to love the victims of sin but not their perpetrators until we come to see them also as victims of a loveless world.

Podcast Notes:


  1. Once you begin to see sin this way, you cannot ‘unsee’ it. Thank you both so much! Always appreciate your discussions
    God bless you!

  2. Merryl’s comment is so true. This really does change things.
    I see this clearly in relation to our sinfulness. Our basic depravity. Are you saying this is true in relation to the sin we commit? Are you saying that our actions aren’t our fault? (I don’t think you are.) I certainly see our actions in a different light now and the need for a safe place to find healing at the root or core of those actions makes total sense. The extent of God’s grace in light of this is amazing. Still pondering….

    • I actually like the conversation going on in wider Christianity that talks about original glory in which God created us, not depravity. While all of us are responsible for our actions and bear the consequences of them, God may not see them as our “fault” in the way religion has talked about it. We are powerless in sin. As Romans 7 says, we often do the evil we don’t wish to do instead of the good we want to do. So, how do we establish fault, if I was abused and abandoned as a child and act out to try to fill needs that overwhelm me. So, yes, I am saying this goes to specific acts of failure and our powerlessness to stop without letting Jesus heal the root. But the consequences of sin, in our own bodies and relationships continues. That’s why we need healing.

  3. Hi Wayne,
    I got a technical issue. So far Facebook/Meta allowed me to view your interviews without having an account. I know what an alien I am right? Haha….but would reeeaally like to watch your interview. Would it be possible to upload a link with the Zoom file on your website somehow?
    Again thanks for your service. Each week I sit down ready to ponder on those topics with you. And they very often are sychronistic, interestingly. Or maybe “simply” God’s beautiful way to bring his scattered sheep together. May He bless both you & your (Wayne + Kyle) families abundantely.
    Many greetings from Evelyne, Switzerland

    • I’m not sure what you’re asking, Evelyne, but with each podcast blog entry at TheGodJourney.come there is a link to the video recording of that podcast. Is that what you need?

  4. The John 8 text gets interesting here. For many years now I have wondered why were we taught “go and sin no more” (performance), rather than “no one stayed to condemn you, and neither will I” (living loved).

    If sin is our wrong choices, I couldn’t figure out why Jesus would tell her that. He knows better! I decided that… “You keep using that word… I do not think it means what you think I means” was the only thing that made sense.

    So now what could Jesus have meant with this new definition? Go live loved?

  5. That’s a problematic passage, isn’t. On first comment, Jesus responds with such grace and in the second seems to put her under the law again. But that’s how performance-based Christians see it. You get mercy when you get in, but then you better perform to keep your mercy. The only way the second comment fits the new covenant, if in telling her to “sin no more” he was actually doing the untwisting in that moment and giving her the grace to walk free of it. That’s grace. He doesn’t give grace then demands performance; he gives grace and then gives more grace in the liberty to be free of the sin and temptation that so easily entangles us.

  6. As I remember back 30 years this past July 4th to Candy’s statement, ” What ever I did or didn’t do, was never meant to hurt you; I was only trying to survive.” Truly, truly broke my heart and it never crossed my mind then or after that of anything I needed to forgive her for. It was all how I had failed to love her as Jesus did and asked and hoped for her forgiveness but I didn’t even need that. I simply became committed to love her with NO STRINGS ATTACHED. Our relationship turned that 180* after that 12 hours of conversation til the next morning. God’s thought to you , “Sara is the world” is so applicable to my own understanding using ‘Candy is the world’ and so opens my eyes to seeing all the people around me and in my sphere of relationship as wounded, traumatized and in need of love, compassion and caring relationship. It truely makes me excited to get to be here on earth as long as possible!!! to be His sweet aroma [perfume], light, salt to all He brings across my path.

  7. Wayne, These four podcast on ‘sin’ have been so thought provoking!! and have listened to them 4 times to try to grasp the thoughts in them!! I took the opportunity to ask the men in the sober homes this week : 1. How they would describe trauma [some have truly experienced serious trauma]? 2. What would they feel for someone they knew experienced it? 3. What are some actions they would or have taken towards those who have? [Very valuable discussion from these]
    I was able then to share truth of what Jesus was like, said, how he treated those in trauma [like the women], AND if they as humans would treat those hurting as they described in the discussion] , like a kind ‘father that gives good things to his children’… how much more your Heavenly Father’…. and this is the FATHER we have that loves us dearly, who have been traumatized by sin. And how sin or present day trauma in our lives will destroy us if there is not love, help, intervention by God and friends and those who care, as He Cares.

    This is really helping me to grab on this truth and reality,,,,tho, still trusting Him to help me with ‘loving the perpetrators’ as He does. So loved Gregory’s statement and example you gave of his statement towards his ‘gang kids’.
    Thanks for exploring this ‘road’!!

  8. Hi, Wayne.
    About this topic, it might be interesting to mention this: 8 years ago, I had the feeling God is saying to me that verse from Romans 7 “ It’s not me, but the sin who lives in me” in the form of I don’t say you did the bad things that you’re ashamed of, it’s not you, was never you, it’s the sin. You are innocent, I don’t hold you responsible for it.
    I was ecstatic with joy, I felt loved, I was light, relived from a huge burden, free, like everything was possible, the world was mine, filled with so much energy, I was in tears of joy, and I realized that what I experience it’s the absence of shame, shame was lifted from me.
    It didn’t last. I dismiss it in fear, thinking it cant be true and it’s dangerous, I made that up or was the devil trying to deceive me, was not coming from God. I was scared, was opposite of what I’ve heard preached in the baptist church that I was attending.
    With this podcast I’m rethinking it, maybe it was God. At least I’m free to explore that now, back then I was to afraid.

    • Doina, I love this. Thanks for sharing it. That it lifted shame from you would speaks well for the insight. I’m sorry it did not last at the time. Religious voices can be so powerful. Yes, I definitely think it is time to explore this thought.

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