Patriarchy, Purity Culture, and Wholeness (#1038)

10 Comments

1. I have only recently learned the term “purity culture”. I want to share something I observed that illustrates what Kyle was talking about when he said how uncomfortable he was with sexuality when he first got married because of the culture he grew up in.

   I grew up in the 2×2 system, which carries “purity culture” to almost the same extremes as the Amish do. When my nephew, who was also raised 2×2, got married, he and his bride were getting ready to change into their “going away clothes” after the reception was over. Someone told my nephew which bedroom his wife had gone into to change, and he physically reeled away from entering THAT bedroom and said something like, “I don’t want to go in that one then!”

   I think this illustrates what Joni said that it is harmful to both genders. Just like Kyle, my nephew would have pushed down his sexuality all his life because it was viewed as dirty, ungodly, something to be ashamed of, and then suddenly once vows were exchanged and rings were on their fingers, he’s expected to flip a switch. It was embarrassing and awkward for him.

2. This has been a difficult area for me too, especially in trying to gain an understanding from the Scriptures about God’s vision of how men and women are meant to relate to one another, and reconcile the more difficult passages about women. I long for conversations that don’t try to explain away those passages but get to the heart.
   I relate to Joni in that I grew up with mostly brothers. Fear has still been a major subversive undercurrent in my meaningful relationships with men. I like the description, ‘the long journey of learning to listen, love, and honor without fear or control.’ I’m on the journey with a lot still to unravel.
   I wonder if it would be helpful to define what you guys mean by ‘patriarchy?’ What I gleaned from what you said was the structure of power resting with men in society, with the attending mindsets of men needing to suppress emotion and women needing to focus on looking attractive.
   Wayne, would you mind clarifying your comment about ‘horny little boys,’ perhaps I misunderstood but it sounded like you were laying the blame for the abuse of female teachers on the boys, and I don’t think that is your heart.

3. Hi Rachel, this is Wayne. Thank you for commenting on the podcast. We will take this up when we record part 2 of that podcast. But to answer briefly, I think all three of us would view patriarchy as it’s defined in the wider culture: “Patriarchy is a social system in which positions of authority are primarily held by men, influencing various aspects of society, including politics, economics, and culture. It has historically led to gender inequality and the subjugation of women in many cultures.” Suppression of emotion would be more the byproduct than the goal, and women needing to focus on looking attractive would be more of a response to it, sometimes driven by women themselves. In more religious quarters, however, men would legislate women to look less attractive in order not to be a stumbling block to male lust.

   As to my comment about “horny little boys,” I was in no way blaming the boys. In these cases, the women hold the power dynamic as authority figures. But the hormones of boys make them easier to manipulate by predators. Females almost always find sexual touch and aggression by perpetrators horrific. Males, however, talk of complicating emotions because they are often aroused by the perpetrator, which is incredibly confusing to them afterward. So the boys are NEVER to blame, even if they find the engagement arousing and pleasurable in the moment. They are being groomed and manipulated, leading to deep shame and personal blame.

   I hope that is clearer.

   • Yes Wayne, thanks for the response! Much clearer. I wasn’t aware if the research regarding male vs. female response to abuse in that way.

     I look forward to the continued discussion. It just seems like there’s a lot of baggage with the term the way its currently being used in the culture, to the point of dismantling and denigrating the nuclear family. I hope with some digging, patience and humility the church can discover the true treasure of healthy authority, masculinity and femininity that doesn’t diminish either. Maybe these discussions are part of that process 🙂

     • Let’s hope so…

4. I grew up under the teachings of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist schools and churches that were influenced by the teachings of Bill Gothard and his Institute in Basic Life Principles for most of my child hood. I remember being taught that our feelings and emotions were bad and from the flesh. They used verses like “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” to teach us not to trust our feelings and emotions. This led to me growing up without being able to identify my own emotions and feelings and to lack any empathy for the feelings and emotions of others. That along with much of the “purity culture” mindset, as well as me being exposed to pornography by an adult neighbor at a young age, led to many years of internal struggles that damaged not only me, but also were damaging to my wife, and was part of the reason our marriage ended after 17 years.

   Thankfully after therapy and years of deconstructing, with the help of sites, posts, books and podcasts from sites like yours and some others I have found along the way, I was able to learn that God does love me, and that He has given me a new heart, and has helped me to learn now to identify my emotions and feelings, and how to have a deep empathy and love for those around me. In learning to understand Father’s Love, Grace, Justice and Forgiveness, I am learning how to love and forgive myself, no longer feeling that my punishment for all of my past sins is disqualification from being able to be in fellowship with him and with others that he brings into my life.

   I’m looking forward to hearing more from the next episode later this week!

   Thank you for everything!

5. For years my husband rejected me, not all the time but a lot of the time. He usually was not the first to be intimate with me. This one thing really hurt our marriage. One time when I was trying to get his attention, he called me a whore. Talk about rejection. I don’t think at that time we had a relationship with Jesus yet but no matter… I know I was attractive so why the rejection? It took decades into our marriage when he told me about lusting after women and how it was wrong. This really makes me want to cry. He’s no longer with me as he passed 2 months ago today. We were married for 43 years. Thank you for this message.

   • It makes me want to cry, too, Elaine. I don’t know how you endured such horrible treatment by a man you deeply loved. Human relationships can be so dysfunctional and cause great damage. I hope you’re finding a way into Father’s love that will heal over those wounds and let you know that you were worthy of love even if your husband did not have what it took to express that to you. May God give rest to his soul and may you find comfort, healing, and the courage to see where he wants to give you from here.

6. Hi Wayne,

   It makes me want to cry that he learned or understood this from church teachings. I feel like the church wounded us. I’m not blaming my husband in this even though it was tough.

   • Me too. Even if it’s from ignorance, however, or bad teaching, the impact on hurting people is the same. Hopefully, we can learn and help each other find freedom and life in Jesus.

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