Redeeming Love: Horse Whisperer (#856)

This is part three of a seven-part series unpacking a very personal story of pain, trauma, redemption, and resurrection in Wayne and Sara's journey. How did Wayne and Sara survive their weeks apart? Both talk about what their life was like apart from each other and what they were dealing with. Not knowing yet about the trauma Sara had suffered, they dealt with so many misunderstandings that threatened to drive them apart. But even in the struggles, God was preparing a way in their hearts to give them a way back to each other.

Podcast Notes:
Previous podcasts with Sara - Learning Love More Deeply (2012)  •  Finding Our Way to Us (2020)  •  Finding Our Way to Us Part 2 (2020)
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, M.D.
Try Softer by Aundi Kolber
Being Known Podcast with Curt Thompson, MD - Season 4 is about unpacking trauma
Helpful video:  How to Find a Therapist
The next session of the Jake Colsen Book Club will be held Sunday, July 24 at 1:00 pm PDT.  You'll have to work that out in your own time zone. We will be covering Chapter 4 on why accountability will not transform you.  You can get a link to the Zoom Room by emailing Wayne and asking for it the week before.


  1. It says the current pod cast has been updated today, but it says on my feed July15?

    Just wondering what’s what?

  2. Wayne, Sara and Kyle,

    WOW!!! Just WOW! The courage… the bravery… Truly this podcast has been aptly named. I thank all of you for sharing.


  3. I don’t know what the laws are in California governing confidentiality, but here in Wisconsin if I received a call from a spouse wanting to talk with me, without a release of information specifically outlining what I can disclose,I would not be able to acknowledge that I even knew the person. The spouse could threaten me, have their attorney call me, subpoena me. Even in a court of law the judge would need to wave the regulations governing confidentiality. And even with a court order only the judge could determine specifically what information I would be authorized to share.

    If a client shared with me any information where domestic violence was in question, I would have a legal, moral and ethical obligation to insure their safety to the best of my ability. Through a therapy process certainly in most cases you work toward obtaining collateral information and family involvement if and when appropriate, yet only if the client agrees and signs a release.

    Even if my client decides to terminate therapy with me, tells their spouse I was a big jerk or whatever, and their spouse calls me, I still ain’t talking, unless I have a release of information from my current or former client. There are only a few exceptions to the laws that govern confidentiality.

    Some clients go as far as they can with a particular therapist. That relationship may end not because the initial therapy was bad, but because the therapist was actually doing their job to help the client break through their denial allowing the client take the next step. A good therapist never ever gets in the way of their client moving forward in their healing, even if the client severs the relationship, sees someone else and the former therapist is accused of being incompetent by others.

    Unfortunately there are incompetent people we deal with sometimes at the most critical and vulnerable times in our lives. I pray that was not the case with Sara and her former therapist. I hope Sara was able to uncover what needed to come to light in her therapy and now has moved on where others who have a special skill set can come along side of her. If I was able to help someone to do that, in spite of people questioning my motives, it would be worth it.

  4. Wayne: It’s been a long time since I’ve listened to the GJ podcast. I think the last time was when you had your conversations with Arnita and Bob about your book “A Language of Healing for a Polarized Nation” That was back in 2020. I was an avid listener for many years, but I’m not on a “God Journey” now. I am just on a hard, painful somewhat lonely journey of being an agnostic human. I try to leave certain things in the past when they meant something to me. I don’t want to ruin the memories by coming back and being triggered by the content or disappointed in myself for not staying. Your podcast, your books and you have been a great impact on my life’s journey, and I won’t ever forget that. Even though my trajectory is very different now, I am still grateful for your contribution to my journey.

    For some reason, I felt like clicking on the podcast today… and I found your’s and Sara’s story. Stories matter to me now. It doesn’t matter the label the person carries, or the beliefs or lack of beliefs they have… their stories are still compelling to me. I wanted to hear your stories. I was doing a road trip to day, and listened to the last three podcasts… It probably would have been wiser for me to pull over when the waterworks started coming, but I kept driving. At first I was broken hearted, but as I continued to listen, I found Love radiating it’s story through yours. I saw Love manifesting itself in each and every curve. She made you cookies??? Really??? You weeded her garden??? Really??? You both are one in a million. But I guess you already know that. My hubby and I have only been married 13 years… I feel like a rookie compared to you and Sara. (I don’t make him cookies, and he doesn’t weed my garden).

    I still believe marriage means something. I think I heard that it was Love, not bible commands or marital obligation that kept you going. That is huge for me. In my understanding… Love drives the universe. Fear and Love… two Flows that can lead you in two different directions. So easy to choose Fear. But all the more amazing when you can find the Flow that is Love.

    So much of what Christianity and Jesus and God were for me is history… But I can still understand the Flow of Love. Maybe all it is a label change. I am glad for you that you still hear Jesus in all of this. The Jesus train derailed for me. But I hang out in nature and breathe in the air that surrounds me… and I connect with “That which gives me breath.” I am clueless as to what is beyond me now, but not ignorant to the idea that something is beyond me. I keep writing and it is my best therapy. I have great community with people of different world views and I am finding a place to dwell with them all. I would like to hang in and continue to listen as you share your story. I think I can do that.

    Thank you again Wayne. I’ll never forget you showing me pictures of Sara’s garden when you were in Stony Plain (Alberta) some years back. I was jealous. All I have in the winter here is snow. But now… lots of flowers. Just the other day I thought of Sara as I was clipping my roses. Strange… maybe that is why I tuned in to the podcast. I really liked the doves and how they showed up for you. We have doves that come in our yard. They are mysterious creatures… but beautiful.

    I guess if y’all are moving… I can take seeing Sara’s Garden off my bucket list. It was the only attraction in California I was ever interested in. Passing along hugs to both of you.

    Ruby Neumann (Calmar, Alberta, Canada)

    • (From Wayne:) It is so good to hear from you, Ruby. Thanks for commenting here. This has been an amazing journey for us from the worst of times to the best of times (which is the opposite of THE SHACK journey.) That “flow of love” and “that which gives me breath” thing sounds like you’re still on a magnificent God Journey if under different terminology that makes more sense than the very bad stereotypical images religion has created for the Transcendent One. So glad to hear you have a garden to tend. We haven’t sold it yet, so you may still have time to tick something off your list, but we’re hoping to sell it soon so we can get on to the next chapter of our lives. Hugs back to you, Ruby. You take care!

      • Thank you… Not everyone can see the similarity of the journey because the labels are more important. I was tired of having the same label for Creator that is used as a common cuss word in my culture. And it is hard for me to define my connection to Creator solely based on a 2000 year old narrative. My favourite character in the Shack, both movie and book was Sarayu. There was an elusiveness to her and her being female, I could find myself connecting more with her than I did with Jesus. I had a good dad… I don’t need a Father figure in Creator, I have enough “brothers” so having Jesus as a brother didn’t hold for long either. But the divine as a gardner… now that I can get excited about. As for a trip to California… not possible for now thanks to flying restrictions and personal choices. Enjoy the road and the people you meet along the way. Ruby

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